chubby cheeks

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

Originally Posted by rvdran

hey there guys

any tips on losing fats ard the facial area?

i am told that its 'baby fats' and wont disappear

read!!!! you cant spot reduce fat!

[macro]

Originally Posted by drugsarebad...hummmkayy

read!!!! you cant spot reduce fat!

sorry, but thats just incorrect. there are a number of ways to increase fat loss site specifically. There are also ways to increase fat loss in specific fat pattern types, ie androgenic v.s. estrogenic fat patterns. with respect to those primarily modulating insulin sensitivity and reducing estrogenic influence/blocking A2 receptors--- respectively.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by macro

sorry, but thats just incorrect. there are a number of ways to increase fat loss site specifically. There are also ways to increase fat loss in specific fat pattern types, ie androgenic v.s. estrogenic fat patterns. with respect to those primarily modulating insulin sensitivity and reducing estrogenic influence/blocking A2 receptors--- respectively.

That's right baby.. bring on the Yohimburn ES !!!

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

so you can spot reduce?

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

you cant spot reduce fat

originally posted in the thread--- 6 Weeks left...

what do you mean by this then!!!!

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by drugsarebad...hummmkayy

originally posted in the thread--- 6 Weeks left...

what do you mean by this then!!!!

Busted... to a degree When working with someone that does not know how to eat properly, or new to this sport/lifting/bodybuilding. Telling them about spot reducing is a little aggressive. As you can, but all the other factors have to be in place.

Like giving the car keys to a 10 year old and telling them the car will do 100 mph. Now we know the car will go that fast, but without the proper education on how to get the car to do 100 is tough. Same example with building a house, need the foundation and understanding..blah blah blah.

Now you see where I was coming from when the newbie ask this question:
"Any sort of things you suggest that I can do in six weeks, to get the abs pumping?"

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

Busted... to a degree When working with someone that does not know how to eat properly, or new to this sport/lifting/bodybuilding. Telling them about spot reducing is a little aggressive. As you can, but all the other factors have to be in place.

Like giving the car keys to a 10 year old and telling them the car will do 100 mph. Now we know the car will go that fast, but without the proper education on how to get the car to do 100 is tough. Same example with building a house, need the foundation and understanding..blah blah blah.

Now you see where I was coming from when the newbie ask this question:
"Any sort of things you suggest that I can do in six weeks, to get the abs pumping?"

good point!!!

[macro]

spot reducing via exercise is controversial, though there is now some evidence that spot reduction and utilization does occur at least to some extent from exercise. Though probably not to an extent where is noticeable except over a significant amount of time (generally not in the realm of most people experiences during-- "get in shape"-- "get abs"- type time frame)

in animals its been shown conclusively.

though using metabolic modifiers(ppar modulators and agonists, insulin sensitizers, aromatase inhibitors, steroids, etc-- a lot of these), transdermal(yohimbine) and site injected drugs(gh, pgf2alpha,etc) and even detergents (deoxycholate) are fairly well established for site specific fat loss in humans.

[BIG RICH]

Originally Posted by Hannainnc

I lose weight in my face whenever I lose a few lbs.

I actually wish I wouldn't lose so much in my face, I like the chubby wubby cheeks.

lol lol chicks dig it!!!

[macro]

meant to post this before, but better late than never

SpringerLink - Journal Article

this one as relates A2 issues




and this one on spot exercise reduction (IMO limited but still against common mythos)

: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Feb;292(2):E394-9. Epub 2006 Sep 19. Links
Are blood flow and lipolysis in subcutaneous adipose tissue influenced by contractions in adjacent muscles in humans?Stallknecht B, Dela F, Helge JW.
Department of Medical Physiology, The Panum Institute, Blegdamsvej 3, DK-2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark. B.Stallknecht@mfi.ku.dk

Aerobic exercise increases whole body adipose tissue lipolysis, but is lipolysis higher in subcutaneous adipose tissue (SCAT) adjacent to contracting muscles than in SCAT adjacent to resting muscles? Ten healthy, overnight-fasted males performed one-legged knee extension exercise at 25% of maximal workload (W(max)) for 30 min followed by exercise at 55% W(max) for 120 min with the other leg and finally exercised at 85% W(max) for 30 min with the first leg. Subjects rested for 30 min between exercise periods. Femoral SCAT blood flow was estimated from washout of (133)Xe, and lipolysis was calculated from femoral SCAT interstitial and arterial glycerol concentrations and blood flow. In general, blood flow and lipolysis were higher in femoral SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle (time 15-30 min; blood flow: 25% W(max) 6.6 +/- 1.0 vs. 3.9 +/- 0.8 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05; 55% W(max) 7.3 +/- 0.6 vs. 5.0 +/- 0.6 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05; 85% W(max) 6.6 +/- 1.3 vs. 5.9 +/- 0.7 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P > 0.05; lipolysis: 25% W(max) 102 +/- 19 vs. 55 +/- 14 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P = 0.06; 55% W(max) 86 +/- 11 vs. 50 +/- 20 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P > 0.05; 85% W(max) 88 +/- 31 vs. -9 +/- 25 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05). In conclusion, blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus specific exercises can induce "spot lipolysis" in adipose tissue.

[ambientdeath]

So what's the verdict, is it possible to spot reduce?

I have the neck of a 400 pound man despite having a super low BF% and ectomorph metabolism. It's sort of annoying.

[macro]

Originally Posted by ambientdeath

So what's the verdict, is it possible to spot reduce?

I have the neck of a 400 pound man despite having a super low BF% and ectomorph metabolism. It's sort of annoying.

depends on whether you mean that your neck is thick from muscles, structure, tendons or because its fat. if its fat then yes. Facial and neck fat is often due to A2 issues (particularly in the situation you describe)

[macro]

as a note- there is substantial proof that spot reduction via training does occur, while its not tremendously significant it does occur.

as second note- the original study that everyone cites that spot reduction does not occur, actually found the same thing (just that it was not significant as compared to whole body lipolysis)

[Gill]

Macro, the PRJ you posted has recently been all but disproven by a group at the University of Connecticut Kinseiology Research Lab.

A sample of 55 males and 45 females trained their non-dominant arm via curls for a set amount of time (8 weeks I think). At the end, their arms were measured using calipers (basic BF measurement tool). At first, it seemed they had lost fat in that area while maintaining it in their opposite arm; however, after doing MRIs on the subject's arms, it was revealed that the fat was simply displaced by growing muscle. The fat was still there, just slightly pushed aside.

Obviously its just one study, but UCs physiologists are renowned for their research teams in most PRJ circles.

[macro]

Originally Posted by Gill

Macro, the PRJ you posted has recently been all but disproven by a group at the University of Connecticut Kinseiology Research Lab.

A sample of 55 males and 45 females trained their non-dominant arm via curls for a set amount of time (8 weeks I think). At the end, their arms were measured using calipers (basic BF measurement tool). At first, it seemed they had lost fat in that area while maintaining it in their opposite arm; however, after doing MRIs on the subject's arms, it was revealed that the fat was simply displaced by growing muscle. The fat was still there, just slightly pushed aside.

Obviously its just one study, but UCs physiologists are renowned for their research teams in most PRJ circles.

MRI is not a good measure of adipose tissue, the fact that they did not use DEXA certainly does not reflect well on the study. that being said local lipolytic effects seem to vary between muscle groups. And unless there is caloric deficit would say that much longer period of time would be necessary to see significant lateral lipolytic effect. Often find that study parameters are not well designed. Though will look at the full study. those are just thoughts based on what you posted.

1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Feb;292(2):E394-9. Epub 2006 Sep 19. Links
Are blood flow and lipolysis in subcutaneous adipose tissue influenced by contractions in adjacent muscles in humans?Stallknecht B, Dela F, Helge JW.
Department of Medical Physiology, The Panum Institute, Blegdamsvej 3, DK-2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark. B.Stallknecht@mfi.ku.dk

Aerobic exercise increases whole body adipose tissue lipolysis, but is lipolysis higher in subcutaneous adipose tissue (SCAT) adjacent to contracting muscles than in SCAT adjacent to resting muscles? Ten healthy, overnight-fasted males performed one-legged knee extension exercise at 25% of maximal workload (W(max)) for 30 min followed by exercise at 55% W(max) for 120 min with the other leg and finally exercised at 85% W(max) for 30 min with the first leg. Subjects rested for 30 min between exercise periods. Femoral SCAT blood flow was estimated from washout of (133)Xe, and lipolysis was calculated from femoral SCAT interstitial and arterial glycerol concentrations and blood flow. In general, blood flow and lipolysis were higher in femoral SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle (time 15-30 min; blood flow: 25% W(max) 6.6 +/- 1.0 vs. 3.9 +/- 0.8 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05; 55% W(max) 7.3 +/- 0.6 vs. 5.0 +/- 0.6 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05; 85% W(max) 6.6 +/- 1.3 vs. 5.9 +/- 0.7 ml x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P > 0.05; lipolysis: 25% W(max) 102 +/- 19 vs. 55 +/- 14 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P = 0.06; 55% W(max) 86 +/- 11 vs. 50 +/- 20 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P > 0.05; 85% W(max) 88 +/- 31 vs. -9 +/- 25 nmol x 100 g(-1) x min(-1), P < 0.05). In conclusion, blood flow and lipolysis are generally higher in SCAT adjacent to contracting than adjacent to resting muscle irrespective of exercise intensity. Thus specific exercises can induce "spot lipolysis" in adipose tissue.

[Gill]

I'd be glad to scan the it to a PDF for you. I'm a PRJ subscriber because of med school. I get about 30 PRJs a month. This was pretty recent. It had excellent statistics and medical support behind it.

Definitely look for it, if not, I'll try to shoot you a copy.

[macro]

Originally Posted by Gill

I'd be glad to scan the it to a PDF for you. I'm a PRJ subscriber because of med school. I get about 30 PRJs a month. This was pretty recent. It had excellent statistics and medical support behind it.

Definitely look for it, if not, I'll try to shoot you a copy.

if you want to send it or post it, will look it over.

[Gill]

Geez! Waited long enough! Haha, I'll try to dig it back up for you. Haven't seen you on the boards in awhile. Hope you're doing well!