Elbow and Shoulder (Baseball)

[STLCards002]

Ok let me try to explain my elbow first...Lift your arm so that it is paralell, then from your elbow extend your elbow out as far as you can. When I do that me elbow, predominately my right elbow but my left also, makes a crunching, pop noise. Then when I do arm circles my shoulder pops with every rotation. What's up with this?

[BUFFLURP]

does your elbow pop/crunch in the little groove where your "funnybone" is? I can crunch it there. advice, dont do that. you really have to force it to pop it, dont you? stop doing it. the pop is a nitrogen relase or something, and is the same as a knuckle pop, then if it crunches, you are grinding your joints, and tearing scar tissue that develops in the elbow area from overuse, etc. I have the same thing.

Its hard to say why your shoulder is popping with every arm circle.

give me a breif history of throwing. Are you a pitcher, outfielder, infielder? prior injuries? does it hurt to do this? rear shoulder, front/rotator cuff area?

the catcher, and midinfield(short arm) have a different arm motion than the pitchers/corners/and outfield(long arm motions).

also, how old are you?




there are a few reasons your shoulder would pop

1) you have a goofy growth in the rotator cuff,
2 something is broken(highly unlikeley)
3) your rotator cuff is over developed
4) your rotator cuff is under developed
5) your rotator cuff is torn
6) your rotator cuff is naturally abnormal
usually this kind of "pop" noise from doing shoulder rotations(assuming you do them in "T" position) is from the bones in the shoulder rubbing together. put your two pointer fingers together and push up with one, and down with the other. you should get a weird "pop" or "bump" noise. thats what your shoulder probably is doing.

also, how do you do your arm circles? big circles at a fast pace? slow circles at a slow pace, small with fast? how? do you just let your arms fly, or are they centered and controlled circles with focus on warming the muscles? dont ever "windmill" your arms. Especially if you are warming up.



take it from me, me being an All-State pitcher, warm up is more improtant than anything. do your warm up excercises slow, (not too slow) and controlled with your focus on warming the muscles. Do them with an ever so slight flex in the muscles you are focusing on.

[STLCards002]

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

does your elbow pop/crunch in the little groove where your "funnybone" is? I can crunch it there. advice, dont do that. you really have to force it to pop it, dont you? stop doing it. the pop is a nitrogen relase or something, and is the same as a knuckle pop, then if it crunches, you are grinding your joints, and tearing scar tissue that develops in the elbow area from overuse, etc. I have the same thing.

It crunches on the outside, where my elbow sticks out...If that's where you are talking...

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

also, how old are you?

16 years old, junior in high school

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

give me a breif history of throwing. Are you a pitcher, outfielder, infielder? prior injuries? does it hurt to do this? rear shoulder, front/rotator cuff area?

the catcher, and midinfield(short arm) have a different arm motion than the pitchers/corners/and outfield(long arm motions).

I have been a catcher since I was about 9 years old, but then my high school coach came along and never even gave me a chance but that's another story, and he put me in the OF. Well since I was about 12 I think I've been having problems with my inner elbow (where my biceps connects with my forearm), it really hurt at that intersection running up my bicep a little bit. Sometimes I felt like cutting my arm off it was hurting, especially with the throws from right field to third......Last season I told my AT and he told me to bring my arm back farther and that has helped.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

also, how do you do your arm circles? big circles at a fast pace? slow circles at a slow pace, small with fast? how? do you just let your arms fly, or are they centered and controlled circles with focus on warming the muscles? dont ever "windmill" your arms. Especially if you are warming up.

Ummm...Small and big, at a medium pace. Small it doesn't pop, but big circles it pops. I pay attention to my stretching...ill try to explain when it pops. Get ready to do some arm circles...Parallel to the ground now, go in a counterclockwise motion (look at right arm) and it pops in the gray area...


BTW I want to ask some questions since you are a pitcher...and a good one at it.

[BUFFLURP]

QUOTE]It crunches on the outside, where my elbow sticks out...If that's where you are talking...[/quote]



Yeah, thats what i meant. Just dont force it to pop. I know sometimes i cant resist popping it. It doesnt pop when you throw does it? This really isnt a bad or particularly harmful thing to do, but if you have the "crunch" or similar sound along with the pop, it probably isnt the best thing. I only do it because i cant pitch anymore (Tommy John surgery).

16 years old, junior in high school

Ok, so you still have a few years of development. Do you play varsity? Are you a starter?

I have been a catcher since I was about 9 years old, but then my high school coach came along and never even gave me a chance but that's another story, and he put me in the OF. Well since I was about 12 I think I've been having problems with my inner elbow (where my biceps connects with my forearm), it really hurt at that intersection running up my bicep a little bit. Sometimes I felt like cutting my arm off it was hurting, especially with the throws from right field to third......Last season I told my AT and he told me to bring my arm back farther and that has helped.

he was right on that, but just to tell you , athletic trainers dont know $hit about arms and baseball mechanics.


Well, this isnt good news if i am going to be honest. Does really only hurt moreso when you start throwing hard? How hard do you thow? be honest. given you play high scholl and am 16, if you ave an average arm you will throw about 72-76mph. if you have a better than average arm strength you throw about 75-78 mph. If you have a really strong arm lik i did, when i was 16 i threw an average 78-81mph.

The reason this isnt good news is because the area of the bicep connection with the forearm on the inner side is where the ulnar colateral ligament is (tommy john) and all the ulnar supporting uscle and the ulnar nerve. but, its hard to tell if it is ligament, nerve or muscle by an internet board. What i want you to do is put your arm on the corner of the wall at a full arms length parralel to the ground(like the hitler sign) with your point of elbow facing the ground. now take your left arm and grab the outer side of the elbow joint and pull it toward the left. you should be trying to pull your elbow joint opposite of the wyy it naturally bends. it should actuall y have about aa 1/16 inch of give. try and see if you get a jolt of pain(not very painful, but reconizable). Thi reason for pain would be the fact that you are stretching the ulnar colateral ligament in the elbow, and would indicte if it is abnormal by the pain.


one other thing. if you are in the outfield you need to make a full arm motion, and i know you are used to a short arm motion from being a catcher, but having proper throwing mechanics for the position is crucial. Usually catchers dont hurt their arms like a pitcher does. but if you even one time didnt warm up properly and started doing some short arm motions and acting like Jeter with arm snaps, you could really mess stuff up.

Ummm...Small and big, at a medium pace. Small it doesn't pop, but big circles it pops. I pay attention to my stretching...ill try to explain when it pops. Get ready to do some arm circles...Parallel to the ground now, go in a counterclockwise motion (look at right arm) and it pops in the gray area...

Ok. sounds like you do them fine. as far as the popping i dont know quite what to tell you. is this a recent happening or has it always happened? if its recent it should eventually go away unless you hurt something, which you probably did not. is the sound more of a "crack" type pop, or is it more of a "bump" type pop? i really cant see a problem with this. if it doesnt efect your throwing i wouldnt be to worried about it, but if it continues i would get it checked out.

BTW I want to ask some questions since you are a pitcher...and a good one at it.

go ahead



really what you need to do for your elbow is go have an x-ray, and even an MRI of the ulnar collateral area and the elbow joint. If you have had this problem for this long, shame on you for not getting it checked out, but hey lets get it settled now before the season starts, in what 5 weeks or so? thats when it starts here anyway.

[STLCards002]

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

Yeah, thats what i meant. Just dont force it to pop. I know sometimes i cant resist popping it. It doesnt pop when you throw does it? This really isnt a bad or particularly harmful thing to do, but if you have the "crunch" or similar sound along with the pop, it probably isnt the best thing. I only do it because i cant pitch anymore (Tommy John surgery).

OK no more popping...

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

Ok, so you still have a few years of development. Do you play varsity? Are you a starter?

I will this year, and I'll probably be bench. I'm not a lier, believe me, I should have been starting catcher since my freshmen year but thinks haven't worked out.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

Well, this isnt good news if i am going to be honest. Does really only hurt moreso when you start throwing hard? How hard do you thow? be honest. given you play high scholl and am 16, if you ave an average arm you will throw about 72-76mph. if you have a better than average arm strength you throw about 75-78 mph. If you have a really strong arm lik i did, when i was 16 i threw an average 78-81mph.

The reason this isnt good news is because the area of the bicep connection with the forearm on the inner side is where the ulnar colateral ligament is (tommy john) and all the ulnar supporting uscle and the ulnar nerve. but, its hard to tell if it is ligament, nerve or muscle by an internet board. What i want you to do is put your arm on the corner of the wall at a full arms length parralel to the ground(like the hitler sign) with your point of elbow facing the ground. now take your left arm and grab the outer side of the elbow joint and pull it toward the left. you should be trying to pull your elbow joint opposite of the wyy it naturally bends. it should actuall y have about aa 1/16 inch of give. try and see if you get a jolt of pain(not very painful, but reconizable). Thi reason for pain would be the fact that you are stretching the ulnar colateral ligament in the elbow, and would indicte if it is abnormal by the pain.

Yes, if it begins to hurt, it is when I begin to throw hard. Honestly I haven't been clocked on a throw but I know its nowhere near where it should be, but I have been lifting weights seriously and I have noticed improvement just from about 6 months of lifting.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

one other thing. if you are in the outfield you need to make a full arm motion, and i know you are used to a short arm motion from being a catcher, but having proper throwing mechanics for the position is crucial. Usually catchers dont hurt their arms like a pitcher does. but if you even one time didnt warm up properly and started doing some short arm motions and acting like Jeter with arm snaps, you could really mess stuff up.

Yea, I have to really make sure to get my mechanics down. I really have not had the greatest coaching. My coaches were all decent and knew what to do but I never got as much training as a kid as I wish I had. My dad pushed me, but never really got me involved as a youngin in travel leagues and such.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

Ok. sounds like you do them fine. as far as the popping i dont know quite what to tell you. is this a recent happening or has it always happened? if its recent it should eventually go away unless you hurt something, which you probably did not. is the sound more of a "crack" type pop, or is it more of a "bump" type pop? i really cant see a problem with this. if it doesnt efect your throwing i wouldnt be to worried about it, but if it continues i would get it checked out.

It doesn't bother by throwing, I just think its weird that it pops every time. Its kind of like the same sensation you when you told me to push up with one finger and down with the other.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

go ahead

Can you give me an overview of what pitches look like for a catchers POV. The last time I really played catcher was I think I said 3 years ago. And I never had good pitchers (which was kind of good for me because I learned to blcok pitches) so I don't know how a good curve ball, two seamer, four seamer, and etc looks like. So I don't want to look stupid by getting fooled by a curve ball.

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

really what you need to do for your elbow is go have an x-ray, and even an MRI of the ulnar collateral area and the elbow joint. If you have had this problem for this long, shame on you for not getting it checked out, but hey lets get it settled now before the season starts, in what 5 weeks or so? thats when it starts here anyway.

Should I wait to see if it hurts? So then if I get an x-ray or MRI they can distinctly see a problem?

[BUFFLURP]

Originally Posted by STLCards002

OK no more popping...



I will this year, and I'll probably be bench. I'm not a lier, believe me, I should have been starting catcher since my freshmen year but thinks haven't worked out.



Yes, if it begins to hurt, it is when I begin to throw hard. Honestly I haven't been clocked on a throw but I know its nowhere near where it should be, but I have been lifting weights seriously and I have noticed improvement just from about 6 months of lifting.



Yea, I have to really make sure to get my mechanics down. I really have not had the greatest coaching. My coaches were all decent and knew what to do but I never got as much training as a kid as I wish I had. My dad pushed me, but never really got me involved as a youngin in travel leagues and such.





It doesn't bother by throwing, I just think its weird that it pops every time. Its kind of like the same sensation you when you told me to push up with one finger and down with the other.



Can you give me an overview of what pitches look like for a catchers POV. The last time I really played catcher was I think I said 3 years ago. And I never had good pitchers (which was kind of good for me because I learned to blcok pitches) so I don't know how a good curve ball, two seamer, four seamer, and etc looks like. So I don't want to look stupid by getting fooled by a curve ball.



Should I wait to see if it hurts? So then if I get an x-ray or MRI they can distinctly see a problem?

As far as not getting good enough coaching and one on one time from somone who really knows is unfortunate. Luckily for me, Rick Anderson was my pitchig Coach. He is also the Minnesota Twins pitching coach. Having a coach that can really teach you is important if you want to be succsesful.

Can you give me an overview of what pitches look like for a catchers POV. The last time I really played catcher was I think I said 3 years ago. And I never had good pitchers (which was kind of good for me because I learned to blcok pitches) so I don't know how a good curve ball, two seamer, four seamer, and etc looks like. So I don't want to look stupid by getting fooled by a curve ball.

Well this really is difficult to give you an accuarate POV since the last time i caught i was 11. Also, every pitchers arm motion is different and put different spins on the ball. I can sure tell you what they look like from my point of view, but i will not be the typical point of view for a high school pitcher.

4 seam: really the 4 seam comes in as straight as it possiblky can. 4 seamers are use to place a ball with the greatest accuracy. They are also the hardest thrown ball. they come out of the hand straight and they keep going straight. You really need to read the angle the ball is traveling out of the pitchers hand. Just getting behind the dish and seeing them is what you need to do. thats all you really can do.

2 seam: when i use a 2 seamer, it was when i was to get some side movement fro the ball, sort of like a cut-fastball. I would use these to hit those low and away corners on 2 strikes to get the batters to chase them, since they appear to be on the corner but are moving away. i get lots of ground balls this way. What it looks like from my point of view is just a fast ball that has a slight tailing action running away from a right handed batter.


curve: curves were my ground ball pitch. A curve ball really should look like a 4 seamer except the ball is rotating forward instead of back. A good curve ball should drop pretty much straight down. If they dont they arent being thrown incorrectly.


a change-up: my change up had an opposite rotation of a slider, so it would have a drop to it that would drop towards a right handed batter. These usually come out of the hand different and should appear somewhat like a 2 seamer, but then due to the drop in velocity, they actully end up low or in the dirt.


really, i threw the 2 and 4 seamers at my own discretion. the catcher just called "1" between the crotch. hope this helps some.

Should I wait to see if it hurts? So then if I get an x-ray or MRI they can distinctly see a problem?

okay, now i am confused. You have been throwing lateley right? if you have thrown at all and it hurts your elbow when you stat to throw hard, you have a problem. it doesnt matter if you have hurt it lately, the probem is that it is hurting at all. the problem with an x ray is it will only tell you if a bone is broken or you have some metal somehing or other imbedded in you. this is not the case. The problem with an MRI is that you will only see a problem if something is obviously torn, and most likely in half. if a ligament is stretched, or injured without apparent lacrations, they wont be able to see anything or be able to tell if something is wrong. The other thing you could do after this if you cant find a problem is find someone, a doctor, that knows how to use an ultrasound, yes like when you look at babies through a stomach, and see if they can look in your elbow an see if they can see scar tissue, or small micro-tears that wouldnt show up in an MRI. Dont get a baby doctor to do it. You need a musculoskeletal specialists to do it. Baby doctors look at babies, musculoskeletal specialists look at nerves ligamenst and joints/muscles. this will actually be the most effectve way to find something, but it really is more of a last resort. doesnt really make sense, but trust me. but i will tell you to find a musculoskeletal specialist that is trained to use an ultrasound will be a very hard thing. i was lucky here is only one person in salt lake that does it, and since i am well known for my baseball, i was hooked up. he told me he only knew one other person in detroit are the only people that he knows of that do the type of thing. im sure ther are a few, but they are not easy to find. good luck with your arm. i know its a pain to have problems, especially in high school when your future for scholarships depends on it..

wow i just read this and i suck at typing.