Bodybuilding for children and myths

[DominikWarns]

After reading the "Teen Bodybuilding" page on bodybuildingforyou.com I couldn't help but posting this ...

Litfing weights is safe and beneficial for everyone but especially for children
The funniest thing about what teen bodybuilding say is that their suggestion to forget the weights will you're 14-15 and focus on other sports is counterproductive and naive at best

It was thought (without scientific evidences) that weight lifting could be a weight load too great for the growing shin bones and that could injury the growing plates stunting growth.
Keep in mind that injurying the growth plates is that hard to be almost impossible

But the counterproductive side of this myth is that surprise ... all the other sports that children are suggested to get involved in cause a way greater weight load on the growing bones and plates

What it means is that soccer, runnning, jumping, basketball, martial arts, volleyball, gymnastic are all sports where the weight load on the growing bones is almost 10 times as much as in weight lifting

In other words not only weight lifting is safe for everyone but all the other sports are not that safe. Playing on the playground ... running and jumping is way more dangerous for bones growth than weight lifting

But actually weight lifting at a young age stimulates bone growth and increase bone density.

Another myth is that muscles can't grow is there aren't tons of testosterone circulating in the body. This is nonsense and if it were true we would never learn to stand still and walk as babies, we would just grow up to be skeleton whose bones got bigger and muscles remained the same size
Ever seen 7 or 8 years old farm kids, doing chores in the farm which involved lifting? They have developed and bigger pectoralis, well visible eight-pack, strong shoulder and larger arms.
Compare them with skinny sedentary city children, it's only a matter of less body fat ... the muscle of children grow bigger like the muscles of anyone else when there's a resistance stimulus which cause tears in the muscle tissue and reconstruction with larger fibers.
Even gymnasts as young as 9 years old show increased muscle mass and higher body weight in spite of lower body fat levels

The bottom line is that the American College of Sport Medicine has stated in its guidelines that children can start to lift weights at the age of 6 years old and according to the circumstances getting more benefit from this kind of activity than other sports like soccer or volley

But it's parents that should question their consciousness and stop deluding themselves they know what is better for their children even if they do know their only knowledge comes from rumors.
A parent who believes to make the right thing forbidding his/her kid from lifting weights till he/she is 15 and who believes that the right thing is actually involving the kid in other sports to safeguard his/her growth is actually harming the kid

Food for thought

I do hope bodybuuildingforyou will correct their mistake or at least will aknowledge there are other point of views based on scientific evidences unlike their dogmatic claims. It's too LOL that they have both a page for bodybuilding myths and a page where they claim as truth the worst myth about weights

Weight Lifting For Children

Young Weight Training

Bodybuilding Myths

Dominik

[man_i_dono]

Originally Posted by DominikWarns

1) What it means is that soccer, runnning, jumping, basketball, martial arts, volleyball, gymnastic are all sports where the weight load on the growing bones is almost 10 times as much as in weight lifting


2) Ever seen 7 or 8 years old farm kids, doing chores in the farm which involved lifting? They have developed and bigger pectoralis, well visible eight-pack, strong shoulder and larger arms.




Dominik

1) how so?
2) no.... lol that sounded creepy

[Caferacer]

Um, there's nothing in that page saying that teens shouldn't weightlift.

It states 'when the body is ready' because just about every training oranization out there stresses a teen lifting once they reach the maturity for lifting. Here, I'll even quote directly out of my NCSF textbook.

"Although there is no minimum age requirement for paticipation in a youth strength training program, all children should have the emotional maturity to accept and follow directions and understand the benefits and risks associated with this type of training."

Then again, hey, this is only one of the most widely recognized personal training organizations, what do they know. Unless of course you think a 6 year old understands the possible risks involved in weight lifting. It's not always about being physically ready but metally as well.

I don't see any 'dogmatic claims' except where it mentions age once, saying 15 or 16. And by that, I'm guessing you are younger then that, which is why you feel so compelled to 'LOL' and copy and paste. There are always going to be people who mature slower and aren't ready to lift at 10 years old, and I think it is better for a site like this to post an age too late, than too early. But I guess that was the dogmatic part when they stated: "The right time ... comes sooner for some than others"

Unless you think they should start, as bb4u put, a 'rigorous workout' early in life. Which is not condoned by the ACSM or the NCSF, and probably many others I am not familiar with. Workouts done by preteens and early teens are the equivalent of low to moderate intensity weight lifting as well.

[DominikWarns]

Originally Posted by man_i_dono

1) how so?

Becuase studies have analized the weight load of various movements and sport
I'm not talking about lifting 200 pounds of dumbbells when you're 10 but of moderate balanced weight lifting activity.
That activity puts far less weight load on the growing bones than movements like running, jumping and kicking

2) no.... lol that sounded creepy

Why? What is creapy is the physique of sedentary city kids not health and health looking
I'm not talking about huge mass here, I'm talking about balanced muscular development like that seen on pre adolescient gymnasts
No one can dany that the muscle growth and increased definition is real

It states 'when the body is ready' because just about every training oranization out there stresses a teen lifting once they reach the maturity for lifting

The American College of Sport Medicine says that lifting is as safe as other sports (why no one stresses the importance to reach maturity soccer, basketball, gymnastic ... and yes these sports are known to have a big incidence of injuries on young kids) and that 6 years old is a good age to begin a supervised weight lifting program

Unless of course you think a 6 year old understands the possible risks involved in weight lifting

I do believe it ... it's an individual thing, again 6 years old is known to be an age where supervised weight lifting is safe and health, probably safer than most activities children could get involved in other sports included

There are always going to be people who mature slower and aren't ready to lift at 10 years old

But how can you NOT be ready to lift?
Since it doesn't matter how much you weigh or strong you are because you can always use the right weight for you and so there's no physical injury risk except when proper form is not followed, and proper form is what the supervision of a trainer is all about I'm guessing you're talking about the maturity to "accept and follow directions" and I think that if you want to do an activity which involves the need for following directions you are already agreeing to following them
And how does it differ in any way from other sports, from the risks of not following instructions and directions while swimming or doing gymnastic?

and I think it is better for a site like this to post an age too late, than too early

Why? Which scientific basis do you have that weight lifting is special in any way and needs extra special care compared to other sports? Which basis that it's easier to get injuried while lifting weights than when playing soccer (still provided there the supervision of a trainer)?

Workouts done by preteens and early teens are the equivalent of low to moderate intensity weight lifting as well.

It's proportionated to their weight and height
Since they're smaller they need smaller weights to train their muscle
The consensus is that children should choose a weight which they can lift for at least 10 reps without failure.
Clearly it's dangerous for a child to lift a weight he/she can just lift 3 times and with a strenuous effort, but no trainer would allow that anyway
It's absolutely impossible to injury the growth plates when you lift a weight you can lift for at least 10 reps even if you're just 7 ... impossible and scientific studies have never proven otherwise

The point about the page of teen bodybuilding is that it practically claims that you need to be "developed" to lift weights and this cuts out all the pre adolescients that could benefit a lot from this safe and healthy activity

Dominik

[Caferacer]

Originally Posted by DominikWarns

I do believe it ... it's an individual thing, again 6 years old is known to be an age where supervised weight lifting is safe and health, probably safer than most activities children could get involved in other sports included



But how can you NOT be ready to lift?
Did you not read my post?
Since it doesn't matter how much you weigh or strong you are because you can always use the right weight for you and so there's no physical injury risk except when proper form is not followed, and proper form is what the supervision of a trainer is all about I'm guessing you're talking about the maturity to "accept and follow directions" and I think that if you want to do an activity which involves the need for following directions you are already agreeing to following them
And how does it differ in any way from other sports, from the risks of not following instructions and directions while swimming or doing gymnastic?

Thats like asking how can you NOT be ready to drive at 10. There is a maturity you need to take the training seriously, thats why I stressed the mental part of my post, which you missed. Yes, even ACSF states that benefits can be seen as early as 7 or 8 but it STILL says to wait until the child is ready. There is a reason for this, and I stated that earlier and am not going to repeat myself.


Why? Which scientific basis do you have that weight lifting is special in any way and needs extra special care compared to other sports? Which basis that it's easier to get injuried while lifting weights than when playing soccer (still provided there the supervision of a trainer)?

There is a liability for this site, that the information giving out is correct and can be applied the way it states. If the site were to state you can lift at 6, and some kid who is not fully matured enough to lift injures himself, whose fault is it? If you can't see the possibility of a site being liable for the information given out, and playing to the safe side, then nothing is going to get through to you.

It's proportionated to their weight and height
Since they're smaller they need smaller weights to train their muscle
The consensus is that children should choose a weight which they can lift for at least 10 reps without failure.
Clearly it's dangerous for a child to lift a weight he/she can just lift 3 times and with a strenuous effort, but no trainer would allow that anyway
It's absolutely impossible to injury the growth plates when you lift a weight you can lift for at least 10 reps even if you're just 7 ... impossible and scientific studies have never proven otherwise

No! It is NOT proportional to their height and weight. If you were familiar with the Borg scale of exertion, or workout intensity in general, you would know that light to moderate intensity is based on the individual and not the amount lifted. But you would know that if you knew the ACSM material, and not just one random fact by them, which is the case. And you can use enough weight to cause the stress needed to injure growth plates, to think otherwise is foolish since muscular failure can cause growth plate damage.

The point about the page of teen bodybuilding is that it practically claims that you need to be "developed" to lift weights and this cuts out all the pre adolescients that could benefit a lot from this safe and healthy activity

Nowhere did it state that adolescents could not lift aside from one mention of an age, it stated that the body has to be ready to take on lifting. Which I already covered, and am not going to state again if you are not going to read it. It did NOT state that the would be damage if they lifted earlier. Now, this little vendetta you seem to have going and posting articles like this doesn't seem productive if you want the article changed. No one here has that power. E-mail the admin if you have an issue. He doesn't post on here often, so either this is a rant (Since you are probably 15 or younger being how you seem to be taking this seriously), or you actually DID think you could reach him by posting an article on one of the least posted in and most misinformation filled forums here. Use your noggin'
Dominik

Reply is in Bold.

[DominikWarns]

Since it doesn't matter how much you weigh or strong you are because you can always use the right weight for you and so there's no physical injury risk except when proper form is not followed, and proper form is what the supervision of a trainer is all about I'm guessing you're talking about the maturity to "accept and follow directions" and I think that if you want to do an activity which involves the need for following directions you are already agreeing to following them
And how does it differ in any way from other sports, from the risks of not following instructions and directions while swimming or doing gymnastic?

Thats like asking how can you NOT be ready to drive at 10. There is a maturity you need to take the training seriously, thats why I stressed the mental part of my post, which you missed. Yes, even ACSF states that benefits can be seen as early as 7 or 8 but it STILL says to wait until the child is ready. There is a reason for this, and I stated that earlier and am not going to repeat myself.

You haven't replied to my question: why put so much emphasis on physical and emotional maturity needed to follow the instruction of your weight lifting trainer? Why there is not soccer, basketball, volleyball, martial art website that say you must be 15 years old to get involved in these sports?
And again do you believe that weight lifting is potentially more dangerous for growth than these activities? Then you need to read the studies on injury risk for kids on sports

Which scientific basis do you have that weight lifting is special in any way and needs extra special care compared to other sports? Which basis that it's easier to get injuried while lifting weights than when playing soccer (still provided there the supervision of a trainer)?

There is a liability for this site, that the information giving out is correct and can be applied the way it states. If the site were to state you can lift at 6, and some kid who is not fully matured enough to lift injures himself, whose fault is it?


He can only injury himself if he is unsupervised and doesn't follow the routine of his trainer.
Would claiming "children as young as six can lift weights and benefit from it provided they follow a trainer and are supervised" which is what the ACSM states, wouldn't that remove responsabilities from the site?

But I still don't understand your replies
If the site were to state you can lift at 16 and some kid who is not fully matured enough to lift injury himself whose fault is it?
You can injury yourself at whetever age
There's no a major risk of injury when you're younger if you're supervised and follow an adequate routine and the instructions of your trainer?
What the different with all those sports that would never dream of claiming you need to be 15 to do them?

It's proportionated to their weight and height
Since they're smaller they need smaller weights to train their muscle
The consensus is that children should choose a weight which they can lift for at least 10 reps without failure.
Clearly it's dangerous for a child to lift a weight he/she can just lift 3 times and with a strenuous effort, but no trainer would allow that anyway
It's absolutely impossible to injury the growth plates when you lift a weight you can lift for at least 10 reps even if you're just 7 ... impossible and scientific studies have never proven otherwise

No! It is NOT proportional to their height and weight. If you were familiar with the Borg scale of exertion, or workout intensity in general, you would know that light to moderate intensity is based on the individual and not the amount lifted. But you would know that if you knew the ACSM material, and not just one random fact by them, which is the case. And you can use enough weight to cause the stress needed to injure growth plates, to think otherwise is foolish since muscular failure can cause growth plate damage.

Growth plates injury in weight lifting is known to have accurred only in accidents while lifting. The amount a weight a child would need to injury himself is such that he couldn't lift that weight, not even once.
The guideline is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to injury your growth plates no matter how small you are if you use a weight that you can lift for 10 reps without going to failure

The point about the page of teen bodybuilding is that it practically claims that you need to be "developed" to lift weights and this cuts out all the pre adolescients that could benefit a lot from this safe and healthy activity

It stated that the body has to be ready to take on lifting. Which I already covered, and am not going to state again if you are not going to read it.

Which is not true and you haven't covered it
You have no evidence whatsoever that your body need to "ready" to begin a supervised weight training routine, because you don't need huge levels of testosterone, you don't need big muscles, you don't need big weight
Physically there's no way a 6 years old body can't be ready for a SUPERVISED weight lifting routine. You just wrote of mental maturity which applies to all those sports whose websites claim you can start at 4

The point is that there's no scientifical reason to believe you need to be more physically developed to begin a supervised weight lifting routine than you need to begin a supervised soccer routine, basketball routine, martial arts routine, swimming routine, "playground playing" routine and what not

Supervised weight training routine followed by a trainer is NOT potentially more dangerous for children than any other sport, and you'll never find scientific evidence otherwise ... but no soccer, swimming, martial art or basketball website will ever claim that you better wait till you're 15 before you get involved with these sports

Dominik

[Cammo]

To be honest, I don't know any 6 or even 10 year olds that have even condidered weight training - they're too concerned with playing with their action toys or trading bubblegum cards. Sicko parents that push their kids into things like weight training & beauty pagents really **** me off. Let kids be kids & decide what they want to do with their free time for themselves.
When they get to an age where they want to start weight training, then, with the correct supervision, I feel that it may be beneficial (but only if they are at an age mature enough to fully understand things such as the dangers of poor form, too much weight etc).

If they are too young to comprehend this information, they shouldn't be doing it.

[B4n3 0n3]

I actually would have liked to have had my parents push me to do the weights. The only thing they pushed me to do was play instruments and I HATE playing instruments.

[Patrick_Bateman]

Good thread DominikWarns, I see no problem with kids lifting weights under propper supervision.
I have read several studys that say jumping and running is much harder on a childs body then weight lifting.

[Cammo]

Originally Posted by B4n3 0n3

I actually would have liked to have had my parents push me to do the weights. The only thing they pushed me to do was play instruments and I HATE playing instruments.

You may have hated doing weights if you were forced into it.

[Caferacer]

Originally Posted by DominikWarns

Which is not true and you haven't covered it
You have no evidence whatsoever that your body need to "ready" to begin a supervised weight training routine, because you don't need huge levels of testosterone, you don't need big muscles, you don't need big weight
Physically there's no way a 6 years old body can't be ready for a SUPERVISED weight lifting routine. You just wrote of mental maturity which applies to all those sports whose websites claim you can start at 4

The point is that there's no scientifical reason to believe you need to be more physically developed to begin a supervised weight lifting routine than you need to begin a supervised soccer routine, basketball routine, martial arts routine, swimming routine, "playground playing" routine and what not

Supervised weight training routine followed by a trainer is NOT potentially more dangerous for children than any other sport, and you'll never find scientific evidence otherwise ... but no soccer, swimming, martial art or basketball website will ever claim that you better wait till you're 15 before you get involved with these sports

Dominik

You're starting to piss me off. The BODY which consists of the MIND needs to be ready. EMOTIONAL MATURITY is needed, which is part of the MIND. The kid needs to understand the risks of weight lifting and be able to follow directions, and you think a 6 year old can do that?

So now you're saying they can start at 4? I never said they could start at 4 years old.

Listen, no one here says kids can't lift at an early age. No one has EVER said that assuming certain factors are ready.

And you keep pulling at that ACSM fact like your life depends on it. ACSF is more widely recognized and they state that mental maturity is needed to understand the risks. If you think that happens at 4 years old, I pity the kids you have.

"You haven't replied to my question: why put so much emphasis on physical and emotional maturity needed to follow the instruction of your weight lifting trainer? Why there is not soccer, basketball, volleyball, martial art website that say you must be 15 years old to get involved in these sports?"

Becuase that is what is recommended by the ACSF! I'm going to be a ACSF personal trainer, I follow THEIR curriculum, and making sure the kid is mature enough to understand the damage lifting weights can do IS important, and I know of NO 6 year old that can comprehend that. Cammo said it best "If they are too young to comprehend this information, they shouldn't be doing it.". You can't say the same because aside form that ONE fact you have no idea what the ACSM teaches! I am sure if you looked farther into their material than one fact you would find that there are ALWAYS contradictions that explain more than just stating "Lifting at 6 is OK". Just like if you took one fact from the ACSF out of context then 'technically' you could train at 7 years old, but it states otherwise. Never ONCE did I say there were physiological reasons not lift.

The is completely BESIDES the fact that I know of NO 6 year old going "Mommy mommy I want to pump iron!". Kids that young are put in a sport usually because the PARENTS decide to, so your whole argument of evil parents teaming up against millions of kids wanting to lift weights until they are 15 goes out the window.

"Growth plates injury in weight lifting is known to have accurred only in accidents while lifting. The amount a weight a child would need to injury himself is such that he couldn't lift that weight, not even once."

Show me a source, my text says otherwise.

[DominikWarns]

Originally Posted by Cammo

To be honest, I don't know any 6 or even 10 year olds that have even condidered weight training - they're too concerned with playing with their action toys or trading bubblegum cards. Sicko parents that push their kids into things like weight training & beauty pagents really **** me off. Let kids be kids & decide what they want to do with their free time for themselves.

I agree they should choose for themselves.
But there several books on children weight lifting has been written and several children ask to be involved in resistance training (even if it is more popular in europe than america)

Also at 6 I didn't care about toys or bubblegum, I was just too focused on music and piano playing and yet I think when I was 6 I was very happy and wouldn't want to have lived those years in a different way
So I don't think it's fair to be so superficial and neglet special interests to children.
When my father was a child there were no toys or other stuff and yet he had interests and dreams. This western country preoccupation with toys and playing is creepy not a young child who likes resistance training. Interests don't interfer with playing, you just don't need this relative "playing" when you have a dream and love to spend your time doing an activity

When they get to an age where they want to start weight training, then, with the correct supervision, I feel that it may be beneficial (but only if they are at an age mature enough to fully understand things such as the dangers of poor form, too much weight etc)

Yes, totally agree but you see the danger of poor form is not something you understand because of your age, you understand it when you're explained it
It's impossible to know if a child can follow the instruction of a trainer unless he is given the change to try to.
But then no one in the field of soccer or martial arts believe that young children are not mature enough to follow the instruction of the trainer and everyone think that you're never too young to follow a sport routine with a trainer or at least doesn't think that anything before 12-15 is too young
So why so much preoccupation when it is about weights?
Why so many warning about weights and quickly green light when it is about other sports?
I have yet to see the evidence that weights are in any way more potentially dangerous than swimming, soccer and popular sports

If they are too young to comprehend this information, they shouldn't be doing it.

Yes, if they're too young to follow the instruction of the trainer
But why children as young as 5 are thought to be mature enough to follow the instructions of their martial art trainer or soccer trainer and only when we talk about weights we assume it's harder to follow the instruction of a trainer?
It's a double-standard which doesn't make any sense, it's just ridicolous


it's this double-standards attitude I don't really understand

[DominikWarns]

Originally Posted by Caferacer

You're starting to piss me off. The BODY which consists of the MIND needs to be ready. EMOTIONAL MATURITY is needed, which is part of the MIND. The kid needs to understand the risks of weight lifting and be able to follow directions, and you think a 6 year old can do that?

So now you're saying they can start at 4? I never said they could start at 4 years old.

You must explain these double-standards to me
Children as young as 4 years old can get involved in pratically all sports
Everyone assumes that children are emotionally mature enough to have a swimming, soccer, martial art, basketbal trainer at a very young age and everyone assumes that they will follow their trainer

What's the difference with weights?

What you're saying doesn't make any sense !!
Either you believe that children shoudn't get involved in any sport until they're at least 12-15 or either you must accept that children DON'T NEED more maturity to follow a supervised weight lifting routine than they need to follow whatever other sport routine

Or either you believe that when dealing with weights more maturity is needed compared to the maturity required by other sports and you have to prove this since I've never seen a scientifical evidence that weight lifting is different from other sports, except that it is SAFER for bone growth

Becuase that is what is recommended by the ACSF! I'm going to be a ACSF personal trainer, I follow THEIR curriculum, and making sure the kid is mature enough to understand the damage lifting weights can do IS important, and I know of NO 6 year old that can comprehend that.

First of all you must have known only demented subnormal kids
On second place what's so different about understanding the risk involved in not following the trainer instructions in lifting and the risk involved in not following the trainer instructions in swimming, soccer, martial arts and so on?

Why can 6 years old understand all the implications of other sports but you assume that they can't understand the implications of weight lifting which is not more complex or more dangerous than other sports?

If you believe that 6 years old can never be mature enough to understand the implications of weight lifting (I repeat, you must live in a zone where children are all particularly idiot since even 3 years old have the maturity to follow the strict rules and instructions of piano playing) you should also believe that 6 years old can never be mature enough to understand the implications of other sports, and yet children get involved in those sports even at an earlier age

You must clearly believe that weight lifting is special and you need a special maturity to lift a dumbell under supervision and that understand the instructions in martial arts, swimming or soccer is easier and require less maturity. This is folly nonsense

If I had to think of a criteria to choose whether a child is READY and MATURE enough for weight lifting I would say that
"as long as the child is mature and ready to engage and partecipate into any other sport while following diligently the instructions of the trainer and respect the rules of the sport he/she is automatically ready to follow the instruction involved in supervised weight training"

Isn't it embarassing though that other sports must be used as a criteria, as if they had people intelligent and sane enough to understand young children can follow instructions and understand the implications of sports so they're not afraid the child will be at risk.
Why it must be so different for weights, since there's nothing special about them and every sport activity known to man is more complicated than weight lifting?

[Caferacer]

Originally Posted by DominikWarns

If I had to think of a criteria to choose whether a child is READY and MATURE enough for weight lifting I would say that "as long as the child is mature and ready to engage into sport while following diligently the instructions of the trainer and respect the rules of the sport he/she is automatically ready to follow the instruction involved in supervised weight training"

That, I can agree with.

It's all down to a matter of opinion as to where that starts. I personally don't think if I had a kid or a client that wanted their 6 year old to lift I would say "Awesome! Go ahead" without evaluating the kid first. I'm sure there ARE some kids that can handle it but I have handled kids up to 13 years old I wouldn't trust anything to, let alone a set of weights.

[DominikWarns]

Originally Posted by Caferacer

That, I can agree with.

It's all down to a matter of opinion as to where that starts. I personally don't think if I had a kid or a client that wanted their 6 year old to lift I would say "Awesome! Go ahead" without evaluating the kid first. I'm sure there ARE some kids that can handle it but I have handled kids up to 13 years old I wouldn't trust anything to, let alone a set of weights.