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06-05-2008, 08:42 AM
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Free Will - does it exist?
If God knows the past, the present, and the future; and if He/She knows the plans He/She has for us; and if He/She already knows what we want to say or do even before we say or do it, how is there free will?
Also, (i'm assuming) since we know the only choices we have are to 1. go to heaven and 2. go to hell, who would WANT to go to hell? That means we only have ONE choice - to CHOOSE heaven. If not, we have NO choice at all! Critical assumption: Heaven is a nice place and hell isn't. There are probably certain theological elements in my statements above that some of you might not agree with. But let's put all "religious theory" aside and try to focus on "free will". Fire away. Last edited by freshlytainted; 06-05-2008 at 05:10 PM. 
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06-05-2008, 10:46 AM
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Oh man, here we go again
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06-05-2008, 10:53 AM
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 Anyone want some? freshlytained: What are you, or anyone else who thinks they're going to heaven, going to do there?
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi
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06-05-2008, 11:16 AM
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06-05-2008, 02:07 PM
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it does in my house!
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always on the lookout for a nice pair of eyes.
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06-05-2008, 05:07 PM
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i know that we all come from different religions and faiths, and some are even atheist. i come from a christian background, however i find my views aligning more and more with an agnostic theist. just thought i'd pen my thoughts here and see what kind arguments i'd get. 
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06-05-2008, 05:17 PM
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What are you going to do when you get to heaven (or hell)? P.S. The thread isn't really going to go anywhere anyway because the activity on this board is not exactly at an all-time high and the majority of the members that are active, at least for the meantime, much rather talk about lifting, eating and everything else in between than talk about religion. You might get a better response talking about politics but that always ends up in chaos as well so don't get your hopes up too high brother. No expectations, no disappointments. LOL
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi Last edited by dannyboy9; 06-05-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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06-05-2008, 07:09 PM
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And yeah, I'm not expecting 10 pages of replies or thesis-like responses. Just throwing my thoughts around and hopefully someone will throw theirs back with something extra. Once again, I'm not getting my hopes up.
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06-05-2008, 11:29 PM
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What about ligers? Will ligers be there???? However, I do prefer pegasus' over unicorns. Flying is way better than just having a horn.
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06-06-2008, 02:34 AM
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Lets leave religion out of this, how about that? Religious arguments get nowhere. end of story.
How about.. Free Will vs Envrionmental Determinism Straight Up, Free will is a myth. Your environment controls you and every decision you would like to make. If you were never exposed to a certain thing in an environment, you would never spontaneously think of it. Has there been a new color discovered by thinking about it? No. It has to be seen. thats a weak example, but Id really like to see what others say about this.
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It is better to die fighting than live on your knees.
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06-06-2008, 10:58 AM
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You choose what to make out of your environment and experiences. In other words, you can't change the fact you were dealt a pair of two's, however, you choose whether to play the hand, fold, or raise the pot.
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"Train beyond the pain... and death is your only release." Steve Michalik
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06-08-2008, 08:48 PM
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Yup, free will is choosing which way to go at the fork of the road. God knows what will be waiting at the end of each choice.
Heaven is delayed gratification, live well . Hell is instant gratification. Some people might choose to get the satisfaction of the moment like killing someone for revenge. So he basically chose hell.
__________________
I'm no bodybuilder, and not a powerlifter. Just a lifter. I thrive for improvement in the body and strength.
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06-11-2008, 01:06 AM
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I think I get what you are saying. Its like no matter what choice we make, maybe its already "known or set in stone" what it will be, maybe not. even though I consider myself christian, I often wonder if we only get one chance at this (life). I don't know how many times I've had deju-vu. I wonder if we keep coming back until we make the right choices or get it right. Anyway you guys ever thought how god started? There seems like there has to be a beginning and if so what makes him (or her) god? I also get this dread feeling every once in awhile that even if we make it to heaven and live forever, that it will never end. That just does'nt make sense to me like would you want to live forever if you knew it would never end. But then again I don't think I want to die and just be nothingness...I try not to think about it because it makes me depressed. I always end up telling myself that our brains just can't compute or handle the complexities of it all.
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07-22-2008, 03:58 PM
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Do you believe in phsycics? If not you should. I have seen one (the same one) a few times already. She has been right on a lot of things. I told myself if she knows the future, that means god knows also. So why are we here if he already knows wich soul deserve heavens and wich ones should go to hell. If our life is planned for A-Z, including all decisions we are making, then i regret being alive. That would be so disturbing to know that we are just like muppets. I asked her if we are really making are own path in life (i.e. free will). Basically, she said everybody has a karma to follow, but the decisions that you will have to make is yours to make. Life is about making decision or choice and dealing with it. I don't believe EVERYTHING is all planned. It wouldn't make sense that a 5 years old child who got abducted and murdured was all part of a plan. If you think about it, that would mean the killer would had been "program" to do it, kind of his purpuse. Would that make any sense?? What she was saying is that your path is already determined, up to where to need to make a decision. One note about hell. A lot picture it with flames and burning forever. You don't have a body so you can't burn. As per notorious phsycics, we are in hell. Does who commits atrocities are sent back over and over again until they have learned what they had to learn. That might be why some live in total misery, they might had a debt to pay so maybe they are suffering for pain they had caused in their previous life.
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07-22-2008, 04:15 PM
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Nothing is planned.
Make of life what you will - happiness comes to those who create it .... not to those sitting around on their asses waiting for it to knock on the door. I believe that being the best person I can possibly be really is the only thing I strive for in life. If I get judged in the afterlife (if there is one), then I wouldn't think much of a god who refused entry into "paradise" based on whether or not they gave money away to religious hierarchy or gathered together en masse on Sundays to sing a few songs. I'd rather give my money to the ASPCA where it can be used to help the creatures that can't fend for themselves. I have no idea what will happen when I die & neither does anyone else .... even though some of you think you know - you really have no idea.
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08-01-2008, 07:23 PM
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amen brother, amen.
__________________
"Train beyond the pain... and death is your only release." Steve Michalik
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09-03-2008, 12:51 AM
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