Porn

[Gill]

First off... bravo Mitch. Bravo.

Secondly, Robyn, I feel like you may be approaching the situation too aggressively for him to unfold infront of you. The way you've described approaching him sounds very authoritative. This sort of confrontation makes the subject (your husband) feel like you view his porn habits as bad, wrong, etc therefore making him believe he needs to lie about it. I know you've put your heart on the line here and I commend you for offering him as many chances as you have, but I feel if you alter your approach to a more empathetic stance, he may be more encouraged and comfortable with discussing this with you.

I don't think this has so much to do with addiction as it has to do with lack of will power. You've already stated he failed to quit smoking. Most likely, he just doesn't know how to say no when the opportunity is available. The distinction is that it is simply a want instead of a need. He doesn't NEED porn but its an obtainable WANT. Like Mitch stated and I whole heartedly agree, unless I'm getting some every day there is always an urge for that release.

The fact that you spied on him can only damage your trust link. I know you did what you felt you have to, but when you start snooping around each other, it only reinforces the fact that you see his habit as wrong and gives him the idea that he can invade your privacy as well.

Take a deep breathe, try to understand his motives, and then approach him as a wife or friend and not like a parent. If he fails to communicate with you, then you should by all means reconsider what your future might look like if communication is already failing at this point in the relationship.

Best of luck to you and you've done a great job trying to cope with this problem.

[joemomma]

Robyn you gotta understand that it isn't your issue, it is his. There isn't a thing wrong with you, period. He's got issues that he needs to work out before you head down the marriage path with him. I would also be worried about other things that he might not be completely honest about. Oh, one more thing: there is no such thing as a healthy lie. A lie is a lie, period. Liers become a problem...at first, it's just one little one. Then, it moves on to something else that's maybe a little bit worse. It's a progressive thing, just like drinking or gambling (or porn). You sound like a fantastic woman, and he is lucky to have you and should get his act together.

[jlozan84]

Originally Posted by joemomma

Robyn you gotta understand that it isn't your issue, it is his. There isn't a thing wrong with you, period. He's got issues that he needs to work out before you head down the marriage path with him. I would also be worried about other things that he might not be completely honest about. Oh, one more thing: there is no such thing as a healthy lie. A lie is a lie, period. Liers become a problem...at first, it's just one little one. Then, it moves on to something else that's maybe a little bit worse. It's a progressive thing, just like drinking or gambling (or porn). You sound like a fantastic woman, and he is lucky to have you and should get his act together.

Great response. This is what I was trying to allude to in my previous Robyn. Just because he lied about something you percieve as "small", he still felt the urge to be dishonest - the question is why? I've got friends like this and the smaller things only lead to bigger lies and sooner or later, it will lead to 2nd nature to him. He will just be dishonest about anything and everything, regardless of the signficance.

Gill's post was well put and he probably does feel like you are being his mother, but what choice do you have? Sounds like you have tried all approaches and at some point the disrespect has to stop (his disrespect toward you), so don't think for one minute that this was your fault or that you are somewhat to blame. You've posted pics before and you are damn HOT. This is his problem to own and he won't change until he comes faces it and decides that HE wants to change.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by Robyn81478

I have worried plenty of times about what else he is lying about. He swears on his life he would never physically cheat on me and 99% of me believes that. He has some deep seated issues with cheating that are not appropriate for me to discuss that lead me to believe him on that note. Have I ever caught him lying about anything else? Yes. Mostly stupid things like telling me one night he had to work late when instead he was at a friends house playing Guitar Hero. Or when I was pregnant and he told me he quit smoking and he really hadn't. These things aren't appropriate to lie about, but I'm sure there isn't a single one of us who hasn't told a lie like this in our past. These are lies I can deal with. Not cool, but mostly harmless. However, this whole situation makes me question every little thing he does. I've become a person that I never wanted to be. I freak out if he talks to another female. I've gone through his cell phone countless times (we're both big texters), I've read his MySpace messages if he happens to leave it signed in. I've called numbers that I've seen in his phone. Sound psycho enough for you? That's what I've become.

Thats because you cant trust him with the little things. What youve 'become' is probably perfectly normal based on the circumstances. Some counseling may not be a bad idea before you decide to scrap the whole relationship. Both of you need to sort out your feelings and know where the other is coming from.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by ktinspired

They way I see it is you are brainwashed by the world into thinking that rubbing on off to some internet floozie is staying faithful to your wife. To me its just plain disrespect...and has nothing at all to do with the church. I've lived both sides of the coin, and find that men who are faithful to their wives and dont partake in lust for other women treat their wives with much more care and respect. There is alot more value in the intimacy they share with thier wives. It's that simple!

So basically youre saying that rubbing one off period is disrespectful. What do you think guys are imagining when theyre doing it, baseball? No, theyre fantasizing about another woman more often than not. whats the difference if yorue looking at a web page, a magazine, or just doing it in the shower sans material? Masturbation is bad, lust for another woman, sounds like a bunch of fvckn religious garbage to me. Many people like myself dont buy into that sh!t cause were capable of thinking for ourselves.

My wife and i are very respectful of each other and thats why weve been married 11 happy years (together for 15) while a large majority of couples around us (friends, family, etc) are winding up in divorce. My parents have been married 45 years, my wifes have been married almost 30 years, and guess what, neither one of us were brought up in sexually repressive households so were pretty much issue free. I expect to be with her till i die.

[Robyn81478]

Originally Posted by Gill

Secondly, Robyn, I feel like you may be approaching the situation too aggressively for him to unfold infront of you. The way you've described approaching him sounds very authoritative. This sort of confrontation makes the subject (your husband) feel like you view his porn habits as bad, wrong, etc therefore making him believe he needs to lie about it. I know you've put your heart on the line here and I commend you for offering him as many chances as you have, but I feel if you alter your approach to a more empathetic stance, he may be more encouraged and comfortable with discussing this with you.

Right now I AM approaching him in an authoritative way. I've tried approaching him in any way that I can think of. I've cried, I've begged, I've asked, I've tried to turn the tables, I've been mean and kicked him out. I've given him a choice. I don't know what else to do. Right now, I'm trying to be strong and put my foot down and let him know that I'm not taking it any more.

Originally Posted by Gill

I don't think this has so much to do with addiction as it has to do with lack of will power. You've already stated he failed to quit smoking. Most likely, he just doesn't know how to say no when the opportunity is available. The distinction is that it is simply a want instead of a need. He doesn't NEED porn but its an obtainable WANT.

I can understand both sides of what you're saying. I really don't know if it IS an actual addiction or not. I have a hard time believing in a porn addiction honestly, but I could be lying to myself. I'm not sure. Porn is EVERYWHERE on the internet. This much I know. He has told me that sometimes he will be on one site looking at something totally unrelated to porn and if there is a link to something like Jessica Simpson nude, he clicks on it, which of course that page has a link on it to a porn site, etc. and it just snowballs. I'm sure this is the way it happens sometimes. But I know other times he just sits down at the computer and types in certain porn sites.

Originally Posted by Gill

Like Mitch stated and I whole heartedly agree, unless I'm getting some every day there is always an urge for that release.

I have a pretty big need for it every day too. There are times that I want sex that he doesn't. That doesn't mean I jump on the computer and look at porn. Have I done that? Sure. But the difference is, I will flat out tell him that I need some satisfaction and if he won't take care of it, I'll take care of myself. Then there have been times where I have been home that he hasn't made one sexual move towards me, but the minute I leave, he's on the internet looking at porn. That tells me he's choosing porn over me. Now, as ****ty as that feels, I can understand sometimes you need a release when there's no one around to take care of it. I don't have any problems with that. But to LIE about it, erase it from the computer so I don't see it, etc. - that is where my problem lies.

Originally Posted by Gill

The fact that you spied on him can only damage your trust link. I know you did what you felt you have to, but when you start snooping around each other, it only reinforces the fact that you see his habit as wrong and gives him the idea that he can invade your privacy as well.

Oh yes. The trust is VERY damaged. I have pretty much zero trust for him right now. And as far as him invading my privacy - I have none. I don't hide anything from him. I've told him things most people wouldn't share with others and he knows what's up every minute of every day. And if he feels the need to "snoop" he can - I have nothing to hide.

[Robyn81478]

I just want to say to Gill - I hope my post back to you didn't sound aggressive towards you or disrespectful. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and trust me, I'm taking it all in the best that I can.

And thank you to the rest of you that are responding. I know, I'm on a bodybuilding website and right now I'm pouring out an intimate detail of my life to a bunch of strangers. The thing is though - I can't talk to ANYONE about this. It's embarrassing to me and if he knew I talked to a friend about it, he'd probably have a heart attack. I really do appreciate being able to vent some of this out and get opinions on things from all sorts of perspectives. It's really helping.

[Gill]

Not a thing to worry about! I don't mean to sound too sympathetic to your husband as you've made it perfectly clear you've given him every chance, but I just wanted to offer an alternative approach and see if you had tried it. You said you have and the fact that you would approach him physically only to be rejected and replaced soon after by pornography does raise concern for acute fetish.

Second, the thing I love about this community is that it is just that... a community. There are a lot of hardasses on here that are just as likely to punch you in the mouth as give you a hug, but in the end, they are always willing to help and provide an immense amount of wisdom. I wouldn't be where I am today physically without all of their help.

Anyways, I really hope you figure things out and can salvage your engagement, but at this point in time, it would be really hard for any of us to say he deserves you.

[Taekwondo Guy]

hey robyn, long time to speak

[ambientdeath]

Everyone raises great points. But we may have missed something. Just something to think about. Maybe it isn't him? You have 3 kids right?

If any of them are in their teens, maybe it's not him?

Just trying to keep things open, getting tunnel vision at times like these is bad.

[Robyn81478]

Originally Posted by Taekwondo Guy

hey robyn, long time to speak

Hello!!!

[Hannainnc]

Originally Posted by ambientdeath

Everyone raises great points. But we may have missed something. Just something to think about. Maybe it isn't him? You have 3 kids right?

If any of them are in their teens, maybe it's not him?

Just trying to keep things open, getting tunnel vision at times like these is bad.

ummm....what exactly are you getting at?

her kids are not in her teens anyway...she is not an old lady!

[Robyn81478]

Originally Posted by ambientdeath

Everyone raises great points. But we may have missed something. Just something to think about. Maybe it isn't him? You have 3 kids right?

If any of them are in their teens, maybe it's not him?

Just trying to keep things open, getting tunnel vision at times like these is bad.

Oh I wish I could have a doubt in my mind that it wasn't him and maybe one of my kids. But, my kids are not in their teens. They are 7, 4 and 1. It's him. He admits that he does it after the initial lies about it.

[Hannainnc]

Originally Posted by Robyn81478

Oh I wish I could have a doubt in my mind that it wasn't him and maybe one of my kids. But, my kids are not in their teens. They are 7, 4 and 1. It's him. He admits that he does it after the initial lies about it.

oh...lol, now i see what he was talking about.

[Kilobear]

Dont wait.
Porn is fine..as long as it doesnt come before you and they are honest about it.
I lost a 9 year relationship due to the EXACT thing you are going through...
at first I thought porn wouldnt bug me..but it broke me down mentally.
Went from secure..to insecure and feeling like I was wrong and wasnt worth a squat.
Im still working on those issues.
Dont put yourself there Robyn..its a ****ty place to be.
Hope it works out for you.

[ktinspired]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

So basically youre saying that rubbing one off period is disrespectful. What do you think guys are imagining when theyre doing it, baseball? No, theyre fantasizing about another woman more often than not. whats the difference if yorue looking at a web page, a magazine, or just doing it in the shower sans material? Masturbation is bad, lust for another woman, sounds like a bunch of fvckn religious garbage to me. Many people like myself dont buy into that sh!t cause were capable of thinking for ourselves.

My wife and i are very respectful of each other and thats why weve been married 11 happy years (together for 15) while a large majority of couples around us (friends, family, etc) are winding up in divorce. My parents have been married 45 years, my wifes have been married almost 30 years, and guess what, neither one of us were brought up in sexually repressive households so were pretty much issue free. I expect to be with her till i die.

Mitch what you and your wife practice in your marriage works for you guys. And thats great. I was not raised in a sexualy repressed household either. I have formed my opinion based on my experience in life. I do think for myself I make a choice to live as certain way. The fact that its different that what you believe doesnt make is "garbage" or "sh1t" as you put it. I have found an enriched way of living by following some principals that you call "religious".

My husband and I have a awesome sexual relationship. But one thing I can say is I have a complete confidence that he is 100% devoted to me. I'm what he desires, not some fasade of what women should look like or act like. Im not just hole for him to get his nut in. We have passion. The real deal. He has no desire to look at porn. I have 100% of my husbands heart, BODY and soul.

[narcsarge]

Robyn, sounds to me like you have done all that you can do to broach the subject and get some sort of resolution. Maybe counseling will give you new tools to reopen communication that apparently has been stiffled over this issue.

Trust is hugely important in a relationship (duh) and maybe, after counseling, you will have to decide whether this issue is a make it or break it deal. You may have to sort out whether your relationship is damaged beyond repair. I know that the issue of pornography is touchy for even the most liberal of relationships. Just my $.02.