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04-02-2008, 03:38 PM
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Seperation of Church and State
This came up in my government class today. Whether there should be a complete separation between church and state or if tradition should prevail. There have a been a LOT of cases brought to the supreme court banning many religious icons/ prayers/ etc from government and school property. Such things such as NO prayers before sporting events and no moments of silence in school.
I believe that everything should have remained how it was. Ten commandments could be displayed wherever, school prayer, etc. If you do not want to participate then keep to yourself. It's easy to do. There are a lot of things I see/hear that I don't like. But I don't go to the supreme court and tell them that my rights are being violated and having others views imposed upon me. A lot of it is a tradition of the United States. Frankly, it pisses me off to see all these cases go to court ruling in favor of people wanting a complete separation. This isn't really a new topic, so I guess I am just ranting. Just wondering others opinions. I feel very strongly that changing all of these things is infringing upon MY rights of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression. In my school, the valedictorian is NOT allowed to have God in there graduation speech, and this is the case in many schools across the nation.
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"Aim careful, and look the Devil in the eye." 
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04-02-2008, 04:03 PM
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dont sweat the small stuff man. there is alot more important and dangerous things going on. like the border being wide open allowing the invasion of mexico. how the muslims are slowly and quietly invading europe and wont be long before it happens here too. how the whiny, pathetic left wing liberals are more worried about the "rights" of terrorists than protecting our country against them (i speak of the terrorist surveillance act which expired for those who dont know). the list goes on and on.
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"He is not human. He's like a piece of iron."
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04-02-2008, 04:32 PM
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Governments have always worked with Churches to fool the masses (such as the feudal times). Religion is nothing more than dogma and has no place in governments/state affairs.
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Lifes a B!tch, but God forbid the b!tch divorce me Check my log http://bodybuildingforyou.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38857 and drop some comments
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04-02-2008, 04:39 PM
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Yea, I'm sure you'd be really happy if you walked into a building and saw the Confirmations of the Quran posted right beside your commandments right along with 150 other religions.
Fact is... Christianity is not our national religion. The country was FOUNDED on the principle of freedom of religion.
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04-02-2008, 05:32 PM
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you are correct. i would be extremely unhappy to have anything to do with the Quran in a govenment building. Im with Royce. lets leave religion out of the govenment. especially islam.
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"He is not human. He's like a piece of iron."
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04-02-2008, 07:47 PM
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My post was directed at the OP, but ok regardless.
Did you ever consider that it wasn't government that was based off of religion but vice versa? Remember, organized government was around long before organized religion (See Roman Empire. See Jesus' Crucifixion.). The Ten Commandments are based upon universal natural morals. As well, in almost every other major historical religion, there is a "Ten Commandments" such as the 10 Confirmations I mentioned in the Quran. It is not exclusive to Christianity. Honestly, have you ever read the Quran? I have. If you read it then you would realize that the Bible and the Quran are so similar one might think they are the same religion just translated to differnt cultures over time, but hey, that's just me.
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04-02-2008, 08:46 PM
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Our nation was not founded on the ideas of Islam. If I walked into a building in an Islamic nation and saw the 10 Confirmations, no I would not be upset. Yes, I understand the similarities between the Quran and the Holy Bible. It is a fact that the majority(not all) of the founding fathers were Christian or another denomination of the Christian faith. Government officials are not required to swear in on the Holy Bible, but may do so on the Quran as well and it has been done. The government didn't say "No, you have to swear in on the Bible." I'm not arguing that it should be pressed onto other people, but if it's there then its there and leave it. If a high school student wants to thank God, Allah, Buddha, etc in their speech then they should have the right to do so (which, by Supreme Court decision, they do NOT). In another case it was ruled that having a prayer before a football game to remember a fellow teammate who was killed earlier in a car accident was not allowed. Without pressing a certain faith upon someone I believe that you should still have the right to Freedom of Speech, and by having an atheist bring cases against you saying a prayer in school if I wanted to, they are infringing upon my rights and in doing so are also imposing their views upon me. I don't want a national religion or national church, I think thats going a little too far. But if someone thanked Allah in their speech, thats their choice and thats their right. So who am I to take it away from them even if I don't agree with it.
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"Aim careful, and look the Devil in the eye."
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04-02-2008, 08:55 PM
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and honestly, NO i have never read the quran and NEVER will. i would never even think about wasting my time with that bs. you read it good for you. you obviously have a lot of time on your hands to bother yourself with that nonsense. i would rather read the cat in the hat. 72 virgins will be waiting in heaven if you just commit a suicide bombing. yeah about as much fact in that as cat in the hat
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"He is not human. He's like a piece of iron."
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04-02-2008, 09:02 PM
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That is a different arguement than you began with. I agree that tolerance is something to strive for, but you were initially showing no remorse for people of other beliefs based upon the erroneous conclusion that our country is a christian monument. Of the ~250 founding fathers, there were 12 denominations present, 5 of which quickly evolved into religions INDEPENDANT of christianity.
You argumentative logic if wholly flawed. You're stating that if its historically present in our American culture, than it should be allowed to persist and other people who don't agree can simply work around it. By that logic, slavery should still be legal and the people who don't like it should secede... oh wait...
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04-02-2008, 09:12 PM
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Secondly, since when is knowledge ever a waste of time? Your completely falsified beliefs of Islam are typical of stubbourn, ignorant people who believe every Muslim wears a suicide belt to work. You seem to have forgotten about all of the Christians on the planet that have DRASTICALLY misinterpreted the Bible to mean it was OK to do as they please. The Ku Klux Klan preached white supremecy and anti-semitism, Hitler killed millions of jews and was Roman Catholic. People bomb abortion clinics every year citing the right to life. Your Christian president has initiated two wars costing tons of lives on both sides. Fact is, Christianity has spawned more violent conflict than any other institution on the planet. There are just as many disturbed psychotics in Christianity as there are psychotic radical Muslims. If you choose to be ignorant, than so be it. Just don't let everybody know it.
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04-02-2008, 09:20 PM
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"He is not human. He's like a piece of iron." Last edited by MindFreak; 04-02-2008 at 09:24 PM.
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04-02-2008, 09:33 PM
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I love how he skips over all the examples I state and just acts like they never happened.
I guarentee anybody who reads your posts, MindFreak, would think YOU were the spoiled teenager. You engage a debate like you know what you're talking about and then at the first sign of opposition, resort to name-calling like a child. By the way, anytime you want to come by South Carolina I'd love to show you my high school honors diploma, my 3.8GPA at the University of South Carolina studying Cognitive Neuroscience and Psychology, and my acceptance letters to both law schools and medical schools. I'd like to show you my apartment which is reserved strictly for medical students. I'd like to introduce you to the surgeons that I call "professor" and I'd love for you to meet argueably the most important people in my life, my parents. The people who told me it was OK to be open minded and love people regardless of their beliefs or backgrounds. Oh yea, my mom bakes some damn good cookies. EDIT: Danny is right. Ultimately this will be an enormous waste of time. If anybody wants to discuss this stuff in an educated manner for fun or love of debate, PM me and we'll figure out a way to chat. I wont be reading this thread anymore. Last edited by Gill; 04-02-2008 at 09:50 PM.
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04-03-2008, 03:38 AM
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Did the nasty man on the internet upset you?
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04-03-2008, 04:50 AM
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Of course it won't end well. People usually have strong opinions about things like this. I have absolutely no ill will towards anyone in this thread or their beliefs. I started the topic to see what opinions were out there, not to argue, OR if to argue..to do so constructively. You make some good points Gill, not all of it I agree with, but hey..you have that right to believe it and say it!
 Next topic..abortion! (jk)
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"Aim careful, and look the Devil in the eye."
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04-03-2008, 10:53 AM
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lol @ this thread. threads like this are awesome to voice your opinion and read other opinions, but leave debates and belief conversion for real life.
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Every time you hit him with a shot it's got to feel like he tried kissing the express train. Yeah, let’s start buildin some hurtin bombs.
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04-03-2008, 12:01 PM
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i dont do religion,dont believe in it!
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i have found the one true love of my life..............the DEADLIFT!
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04-03-2008, 12:10 PM
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I find there are 2 topics that I choose to NEVER debate over the Internet,
with the In-Laws or with my employers and those 2 topics are 1.) Religion 2.) Politics People are too passionate over their belief systems and there is nothing you will do that will stray what another thinks in these areas. All that happens is the debate turns to a heated argument, NO THANKS, I dont need to punch someone in the face over an argument about GOD. So I believe what I believe and I let you believe what you believe, I dont try to convince anyone that what I KNOW IS THE BEST.... You can live your life as you see fit, I will do the same...GOD BLESS AMERICA! This is a completely useless thread, total garbage!
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04-03-2008, 12:36 PM
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