Man, its about time...

[Matt58]

Finally our Military gets an updated armor vehicle, the MRAP. Now I haven't been to Iraq so i'm not going to talk like I know it all but what took them so long? Who knows how many lives could have been saved if Rumsfeld and all his people at the Pentagon made the MRAP program a top priority back in 2004. This quote by Rumsfeld pissed me off, "You fight with the Army that you have, not with what you might want." In war it seems like a game of adaption and so far we aren't adapting very well....


Army Orders Thousands More MRAPs

ARLINGTON, Va. — Get ready for 2008: the year of the MRAP.

The Army plans to buy up to 17,700 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles, known as MRAPs, which have proved to take blasts from ro
adside bombs much better than up-armored Humvees.

While the Army estimates that it won’t be until July 2009 that all of the MRAPs could be manufactured, the Army wants to send as many as possible downrange next year, said Army spokesman, Lt. Col. Carl Ey.

“It’s important that the Army supports the warfighter as quickly and as efficiently as possible,” Ey said.

USA Today first reported on Monday that the Joint Requirements Oversight Council approved up to 17,700 MRAPs for the Army. Until now, the Army had been approved for 2,500 of the vehicles.

Ey confirmed that JROC approved the MRAP purchases for the Army, but he added that does not mean the Army will get all 17,700 MRAPs.

The MRAPs will likely be a one-for-one swap with up-armored Humvees in theater, with most expected to go to Multi-National Corps–Iraq, Ey said.

“The vehicles will go into theater and the commander on the ground will decide where they go,” he said.

The Army expects that all 17,700 MRAPs could be produced by July 2009.

On Friday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters that companies that have been awarded MRAP contracts are ramping up production and are expected to be able to produce “many hundreds a month” within the next few months.

Gates also stressed the need to get MRAPs to troops quickly.

“For every month we delay, scores of young Americans are going to die,” he said Friday.

Gates has made getting MRAPs to troops in Iraq a top priority.

When the Army initially requested only 2,500 of the vehicles, Gates sent acting Army Secretary Pete Geren a memo noting the disparity between the Army and Marine Corps’ approaches toward buying MRAPs.

The Corps, which has ordered 3,700 MRAPs, felt a “moral imperative” to put all Marines and sailors in the vehicles despite the cost because the vehicles provide much more protection against roadside bombs than do up-armored Humvees, said Corps Commandant Gen. James Conway in March.

“The MRAP program should be considered the highest priority of the Department of Defense acquisition program and any and all options to accelerate the production and fielding of this capability to the theater should be identified, assessed and applied where feasible,” Gates wrote in his May 2 memo to Geren.

Geren responded in a follow-up memo saying that MNC-I had requested the 17,700 MRAPs.

Last month, JROC allocated 1,200 MRAPs to the Army.

[Jamiel]

Amazing when you look at the history of how sh1tty the troops have been treated over the last 50+ years that people still volunteer.

[Matt58]

Originally Posted by Jamiel

Amazing when you look at the history of how sh1tty the troops have been treated over the last 50+ years that people still volunteer.

Yeah man seriously, they deserve better. Ok so lets look at this, about 3,500 Troops have died in Iraq and about 80% from IED's. So if the MRAPs were put into use back in 2004 that would've saved about 2,500+ lives and the death toll would only be 1,000. It's still horrible to lose anyone fighting for our country but wonder how us, the civilians, would be looking at the war if 1,000 died. I don't want this too sound bad either but 3,500 is not a lot of casualties, for this war being longer than WWII that is not high at all. What was it, like 4,000 deaths on Omaha beach(D-day) in ONE day. Our Military is doing a great job and we should thank them for that and just wish they were treated better!

[musclesntx]

I hate getting involved in any type of politically related thread in these forums, but there are a few things I think people don't understand. We are the most technologically advanced warfighting military in the history of the universe - we're so far ahead and beyond of any of other country that it's not even open for discussion. Notice I said country. There isn't another military alive that would ever stand a chance.

In Iraq and Afghanistan, we aren't fighting another country or military. We're fighting people that are so far behind us technologically speaking, that we've had to completely dumb our military down to get on the same level as them.

I can't use examples of some of the things that have happened in Iraq without getting arrested (lol), but our military is simply not well-equipped for a single, one man attack. Kind of like the Death Star in Star Wars - it was designed to destroy a huge fleet or large scale attack, but a single fighter could easily go undetected and leave us vulnerable. Hell, they're leaving bombs in dead cats on the side of the road. We're equipped to avoid heat seeking missiles and to destroy radar sites. Their radar site is a 7 year old kid sitting on a cell phone on the side of the road telling some asshole hiding in a building 10 miles away to detonate his cat.

Now, onto the military getting those new armored hummers. You cannot completely blame the government for that, because it isn't the government or a government entity designing and producing those things - it's commercial industry. Lockheed, GD, NG, Blackwater, etc are the ones that are creating these weapons - our government only approves or disapproves the specs. With congress threatening to limit spending, it's going to influence delivery time from the manufacturers, quality and everything else.

It's not the most efficient system in the world and there's so much more bureacacy and nonsense that goes on that there will never be a quick and rapid change for anything DOD related. There is no hurry...

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Jamiel

Amazing when you look at the history of how sh1tty the troops have been treated over the last 50+ years that people still volunteer.

I pretty much consider most of your political and training insight somewhere below my 2 year olds, but since you like to refer to history, I guess I can quote one of our former, albeit extremely overrated Presidents:

"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what can you do for your country."

But I'd pretty much bet my leg that you've never served in any capacity...

[Matt58]

Boyd, you probably know the answer to this question; Is our Military actually stretched thin or are we still in good shape? Like you said I know were the most technological advanced "country" in the world and no other country could stand a chance face to face with us. So do you still say the US stands on top as the Military power of the world?

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Matt58

Boyd, you probably know the answer to this question; Is our Military actually stretched thin or are we still in good shape? Like you said I know were the most technological advanced "country" in the world and no other country could stand a chance face to face with us. So do you still say the US stands on top as the Military power of the world?

We're absolutely stretched thin. Iraq sucks. Afghanistan sucks. If you've been over there 3 times in like 4 or 5 years, why on earth would you stay in? I mean, there's a difference between doing nothing, but those kids have served their time and done their thing and many of them are getting out. They've lost their families in many cases, friends in many cases, and several of them have lost a lot of themselves.

As definite as I answered that above question, we could still shred any other country in the world in 2 days. You have to understand that we're only using a fraction of our high performance weapons there. The jets are barely flying. The bombs are still in bunkers in Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, etc. If utter destruction of a country was our primary goal, we could accomplish that in a matter of hours...

In Iraq, regardless of what the left wing of this country wants to believe or convince others to believe, utter destruction is not our goal or desire.

[Matt58]

Yeah, I see what you are saying. Do you think its to blame the Clinton administration back in 1990?(correct me if i'm wrong) when they cut down the Military from about 2,000,000 to about 1,400,000? I remember hearing something about in October the Military will run out of cycles for troops, so then what?

[Theguns]

Musclentx.....There is no doubt that we have a dominant military...but i dont think we can just demolish anybody we want in a day.....if germany invaded us (which they want because they are allies) without warning they would be capable of captureing %25 percent of the US maybe even higher....we would be able to take it back though no doubt about that but we dont have an army full of terminators .....we have some pretty cool weapons....Iraq is just a mess...their military is a group of little kids with rocks compared to ours.....combat wise we are dominant.....We have destroyed 75 tanks and other armored vehicles for every 1 tank of ours that has been destroyed....We have some cool stuff to fire but make no mistake about their are other good forces out there. China is pretty advanced..they have more people im their military than we have in out country

So my point is yes we are an elite, dominant, advanced, military force but we cant just walk in and destroy any force we want.........easily anyway

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Matt58

Yeah, I see what you are saying. Do you think its to blame the Clinton administration back in 1990?(correct me if i'm wrong) when they cut down the Military from about 2,000,000 to about 1,400,000? I remember hearing something about in October the Military will run out of cycles for troops, so then what?

They'll create new cycles.

I'm not going to point the blame at the Clinton Administration. I think initially, Iraq was necessary. Whether liberals want to admit it or not, their savior Bill Clinton himself said "based on the information the President had, he had NO CHOICE but to go knock Saddam Hussein out of power..." We did a piss poor job of winning the hearts of the people of Iraq over. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and while I think it was necessary, I think that they need to seriously revise their plan and allow the country (Iraq) to divide into separate states or whatever, since they've shown they refuse to get along as one united country.

I have a few remarks in defense of the President though...
1. There hasn't been a terrorist attack on US soil since September 11, 2001. It isn't as if there aren't people who want to kill us, because there are plenty and it has nothing to do with Iraq. I do believe that it is a matter of time before suicide bombers start detonating in busses, subways, stadiums, movie theaters, etc here in the US and we as a country are not ready for that. We'll be wishing we killed a lot more people WHEN (not if) that starts happening. While I wish there was a reincarnation of Dwight D. Eisenhower, I also realize that isn't going to happen and we have to make best with what we have.

I don't think people realize the threat to our country and simple way of life if terrorists find a way to detonate 3 simple dirty bombs: one on Wall Street, one at the Tokyo Stock Exchange and one near the London Stock Exchange. Those three markets close for a day or two and you will see true chaos and the free world absolutely crippold... As long as we're keeping our eyes on people who would attempt something like that and then blowing the hell out of them when we suspect it, I'm happy.

2. I'm getting filthy rich. The economy has NEVER been better and unless a dem gets in the office and starts authorizing ridiculous spending on worthless social plans that only perpetuate poverty (while pressuring the FedRes to increase interest rates) it won't slow down any time soon.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Theguns

Musclentx.....There is no doubt that we have a dominant military...but i dont think we can just demolish anybody we want in a day.....if germany invaded us (which they want because they are allies) without warning they would be capable of captureing %25 percent of the US maybe even higher....we would be able to take it back though no doubt about that but we dont have an army full of terminators .....we have some pretty cool weapons....Iraq is just a mess...their military is a group of little kids with rocks compared to ours.....combat wise we are dominant.....We have destroyed 75 tanks and other armored vehicles for every 1 tank of ours that has been destroyed....We have some cool stuff to fire but make no mistake about their are other good forces out there. China is pretty advanced..they have more people im their military than we have in out country

So my point is yes we are an elite, dominant, advanced, military force but we cant just walk in and destroy any force we want.........easily anyway

Germany? They've felt our wrath twice... They don't want it a third time. You've obviously never been there - I lived there for two years. They are no threat to France, much less the US.

Besides, it wouldn't be a hand to hand combat scenario if we were fighting a real country. Don't ever underestimate air power...

[Myles]

Yes, China is pretty advanced. They also have a hell of a lot more troops then USA does, the only problem is shipping them across the ocean to get to our continent.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Myles

Yes, China is pretty advanced. They also have a hell of a lot more troops then USA does, the only problem is shipping them across the ocean to get to our continent before a barrage of nukes melted Shanghai and Beijing.

FIXED.

[Matt58]

Wonder what would happen if everyone teamed up and tried to attack us, but also our Troops were back home and Military was "refreshed".

but some of the sweet ass weapons and we have:

[Traps]

I bet we would really see the sweet ass weapons if we were being invaded, or had our national security seriously compromised. Stuff we dont even know about.

(at least thats what I hope)

[Matt58]

..Also imagine if we would've put all our forces and our primary focus on Afghanistan and not Iraq. Al-qaeda would be pretty much wiped out I bet, ben laden probably dead.

You are right though about the pressure to invade Iraq, everyone thought they had WMD's, even the french and john kerri. Though call me crazy I still think they are buried somewhere in Syria. Even if they don't it was a good thing taking Saddam out of power for all the crimes he comited, like killings thousands of Kurds or he'd kill athletes for not doing well, etc.

[Matt58]

Originally Posted by Traps

I bet we would really see the sweet ass weapons if we were being invaded, or had our national security seriously compromised. Stuff we dont even know about.

(at least thats what I hope)

Area 51, man. Who knows what they have hear, I was watching some show in the history channel about future weapons, tech and all that they said in 20 years or so our troops are going to have a uniform/camo that changes colors/adapts to the enviroment around them. Also possibly in 40+years our troops will be invisible, but highly doubtful. haha

The Military channel will be having a special series on new technology being made by the US, it starts on July 8th at 8:00pm, every Sunday.

[Jamiel]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I pretty much consider most of your political and training insight somewhere below my 2 year olds, but since you like to refer to history, I guess I can quote one of our former, albeit extremely overrated Presidents:

"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what can you do for your country."

But I'd pretty much bet my leg that you've never served in any capacity...

Your silly personal attacks show that you are immature and hateful.

I do not like that Kennedy quote, he was so far off the mark with that one. As for military service I did not serve due to the fact I was told by my father who is a Vietnam vet not too. I respect my father and he explained to me that it was not a good life decision, so I went to college instead.