We invented god. Food for thought

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by Mr-Larkin

So i am assuming this is when the banter starts yeah?? exsuse me for saying that i think you look gay in your avatar!!! NOT THE POINT.

And to be honest your coming out with more and more crap everytime you post.

I GUESS THIS IS NOT INSULT?

The whole point of what i posted was not to disprove GOD but to make a point about people turning away from GOD everyday. You see, be it a child or an adult, believer or non believer writing something, i listen to what everyone has got to say.

Now i'll explain why i think you come out with crap;

I GUESS THIS ISN'T ARSH TO ANYBODY TO READ AT?

PROOF OF CHARIOT WHEELS; Are you seriously taking the piss, we post up time and time again about proof of an old earth, fossils, ect, ect, and you post that, c'mon pal.

THIS IS NOT CLOSED MINDED... No No.. IT'S JUST WELL. CLOSED MINDED

Its pretty obvious that your getting wound up about this debate, which most people do who believe in god, you also said that its better to believe because at the end you dont get another chance, so what? do you beleive because you are scared? (GOD fearing).

I said i was agonna leave this thread but its getting interesting again.

2000 years ago i'm sure that 80% of the world population beleived, i know that 50 years ago everyone said grace before they ate thier dinner, but think back to say 15-20 years ago, didn't they abolish sunday closing for businesses??, you cant escape it, more and more people everyday are losing ther so called faith.

THIS IS NOT BASHING OTHERS BELIEFS?

I have never seen no'r experienced anything in my life that would make me believe. The best effort that any religous person or one who believes in god can give me is a history lesson, where are the remains of the ARK?, where are the comandments? where is anything?.

We dig everyday, all over the world for fossils and we find them dating back millions of years, oh, but hang on; they are not real are they because earth is not that old, so whats that a world wide conspiracy?

I also prefer Regular dead lifts but only because i prefer free weights.

JUST HAD TO REMEMBER EVERYONE ABOUT YOUR CURRENT REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT TRAINING HAHA!

Well...

[Mr-Larkin]

Originally Posted by NPayette

Well...

Well? i'll tell you "well..."

Totaly off topic, if you read through from the begining you'll find that i have been slaundered far more, as i seem to be on one side of this debate and you lot on the other..
This has got nothing whatsoever to do with weight training, that is mearly being used as a form of sarcasm to induce a response that can be slaundered.

If you cant post anything constructive and can only post replies to replies, or quotes to quotes, then dont post.

Anyway......

Found this which i thought was interesting, its not long and provided tonns of links to references.

Its titled,
Attempt to dialog with creation scientists Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[BiggerGuns=LongerDrives]

Originally Posted by Mr-Larkin

Is this the part when you start sucking arse to try and make me look bad?? Pathetic.

No, this is the part when I say you are a fvcken moron - bwahahahahaha



.

Originally Posted by Traps

First warning to biggerguns. If you cant handle the discussion, please do not engage in the topic. I'm sure you understand. Thank you.

[Hawkwind]

Well...this subject seems to have been 'discussed' quite thoroughly and long enough. I'm locking this now.

[Traps]

Sorry Hawk. I'm unlocking the thread. People are enjoying the discussion, and with the exception of now two people. The thread has gone quite well.

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by Traps

Sorry Hawk. I'm unlocking the thread. People are enjoying the discussion, and with the exception of now two people. The thread has gone quite well.

Thanks traps .

I do enjoy the discution and I would really like any young earth believer to read the thing that Mr. Larkin has sent.

I went thru it and it does make sense and it does not look like biased.

[Mr-Larkin]

Originally Posted by NPayette

Thanks traps .

I do enjoy the discution and I would really like any young earth believer to read the thing that Mr. Larkin has sent.

I went thru it and it does make sense and it does not look like biased.

I'm Glad this has been reopened, my goal is not to cause aruments it is to have a sensible conversation about probably THE most controversial subject in the world.
If i have offended any one of you then i openly appologise.

So any thoughts on what i posted??

[schmichael]

Mr Larkin

i'll give you some quick thoughts on the article (i'm coming from a young-earth, recent creation starting point).

you didn't specifically point out which parts you agree/disagree with so i'm gonna make some basic observations.

Firstly, the intro asserts that "Over 99.8% of specialists in the biological and geological sciences support the theory of evolution. This implies a very old earth. A near universal estimate, based on radiometric measurements of earth rocks, is that that the earth coalesced into more or less its current shape about 4.5 billion years ago."

i have a number of problems with this point.
1. Truth, or in this case historical facts, are not decided by majority vote so it is irrelevant how many people believe something to be true. the percentage shown has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of the statement.

2. Radiometric dating is far too unreliable and open to our own interpretations of the data to be used as any sort of proof. there are multiple examples of the dates of fossils and rocks continually being altered to fit into the current idea of how old something "should be". the methods used rely far too much on unprovable assumptions and the results can vary for too much even on the same sample to be taken seriously. (i'll provide links for you if you want).


i have done a lot of reading about the creation/evolution debate and so far have never come across this arguement for or against a young earth but immediatly i can see that the whole arguement hinges not on the facts but on ones own interpretation of the facts.

The only fact i could see presented was that the earths rotation has slowed by two milliseconds over the last 185 years (assuming that the measurements were accurate).

now to extrapolate that out requires assumptions to be made. those assumptions are totally unprovable and therefore the arguement falls flat.

it is the same with most of the arguements in this debate. if your starting assumption is incorrect then your whole arguement is void.

so the question is not 'which facts presented are correct' but 'which starting assumption am i going to accept' because both sides have the same facts but use different unprovable assumptions (axioms) to interpret them.

[ShortBucRising]

There is no way to prove anything, but this is what I think. I'm not going to go through all kinds of article and crap, b/c most of this I've learned from schooling, history channel, etc. There are more than likely things in the bible that are true, but some are more story than reality. I am not a huge creation believer. Aside from the fossil argument, dinosaurs were around well before people or we would be extinct. Also, I'm not sure of the rate at which rocks erode in relation to the amount of water eroding it, but I'm sure that the Grand Canyon did not just pop up in a few hundred years. It would take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Another thing I do believe is that science is not perfect. From what little I do remember, thought not every little thing in the bible may be fact, it was written by man. University professors and historians believe that many bible events were true or explained in ways of being miracles or acts of God b/c the people of the time could not explain what happened. We tend to think of some cultures as uncivilized b/c they worshiped a different god or gods and had rituals we didn't approve, but those rituals and views were their explainations for things that went on in the world. Many things that happened we called miracles or "acts of God." We are not that different from those people. Food for thought: the Mayan calendar is considered very accurate and after much study, it ends with the year 2012. Only time will tell if that's true or not.

[Mr-Larkin]

Originally Posted by ShortBucRising

There is no way to prove anything, but this is what I think. I'm not going to go through all kinds of article and crap, b/c most of this I've learned from schooling, history channel, etc. There are more than likely things in the bible that are true, but some are more story than reality. I am not a huge creation believer. Aside from the fossil argument, dinosaurs were around well before people or we would be extinct. Also, I'm not sure of the rate at which rocks erode in relation to the amount of water eroding it, but I'm sure that the Grand Canyon did not just pop up in a few hundred years. It would take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Another thing I do believe is that science is not perfect. From what little I do remember, thought not every little thing in the bible may be fact, it was written by man. University professors and historians believe that many bible events were true or explained in ways of being miracles or acts of God b/c the people of the time could not explain what happened. We tend to think of some cultures as uncivilized b/c they worshiped a different god or gods and had rituals we didn't approve, but those rituals and views were their explainations for things that went on in the world. Many things that happened we called miracles or "acts of God." We are not that different from those people. Food for thought: the Mayan calendar is considered very accurate and after much study, it ends with the year 2012. Only time will tell if that's true or not.

I like what you have said there.
It is a fact that the bible was written by man and so cannot tell what is fact and what is fiction, i also agree that (and think i have said before) that people of that time could not possiblly explain things that happened as they were not inntelligent enough to think like that so would assume that it was an act of god. Bring jesus to 2007 and he would be another david blain, we think we are intelligent but we cannot even explain things he does.

VBigNate said something that baffled me; "God already decided your fate before you even exsited" so whats the point in believing in him? it doesn't matter!

[ShortBucRising]

Originally Posted by Mr-Larkin

VBigNate said something that baffled me; "God already decided your fate before you even exsited" so whats the point in believing in him? it doesn't matter!

What I don't understand about this is if that would be true, then why create us and why not put us where we are destined to go? Responses are that we all have free will, but is it really free will if it is already pre-ordained??? Not too free to me. We can't make the decision to follow this and that if it is pre-ordained that we are going to follow a certain choice.

[schmichael]

just because God knows the decision you will make doesn't mean that it's not your decision to make. don't confuse God knowing what you will do with God making you do it.

please explain why you think you can't make your own decision if it's pre-ordained.

[schmichael]

Originally Posted by Mr-Larkin

I like what you have said there.
It is a fact that the bible was written by man and so cannot tell what is fact and what is fiction,

the bible was obviously penned by men but the content was from God.

2 Timothy 3:16


All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

i know that you don't believee this to be true but the fact is the bible claims to be the word of God therefore the onus is on you to prove otherwise.

the same goes for the bibles claims of inerrancy, you must prove that they are incorrect.

Originally Posted by Mr-Larkin

i also agree that (and think i have said before) that people of that time could not possiblly explain things that happened as they were not inntelligent enough to think like that so would assume that it was an act of god. Bring jesus to 2007 and he would be another david blain, we think we are intelligent but we cannot even explain things he does.

this is only true if Jesus' miracles were a hoax. if He is in fact the Son of God and the creator and sustainer of all life then you still would not be able to explain them away.

also, how smart do you have to be to identify the difference between someone who was dead that has been brought back to life? or someone who has been healed of leprosy? or someone who was blind since birth but was healed by Jesus??? david blain certainly doesn't do any of those things!!

[smallfry]

Originally Posted by ShortBucRising

What I don't understand about this is if that would be true, then why create us and why not put us where we are destined to go? Responses are that we all have free will, but is it really free will if it is already pre-ordained??? Not too free to me. We can't make the decision to follow this and that if it is pre-ordained that we are going to follow a certain choice.

Exactly schmicheal, God is sovergn(spelling?). So there-fore He already knows the beggining and the end, He knows who will accept Him and who won't. But that does not in no way mean He made the choice for you.
We have free will, when you stand before God and you'v rejected Him, you'l have no excuse. The Bible says "Now is the day of salvation." This life is our chance, our test if you will. Choose Him, He already "chose" everyone when Jesus took our sins upon Himself.

[ShortBucRising]

Originally Posted by schmichael

2 Timothy 3:16


All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness

i know that you don't believee this to be true but the fact is the bible claims to be the word of God therefore the onus is on you to prove otherwise.

the same goes for the bibles claims of inerrancy, you must prove that they are incorrect.




this is only true if Jesus' miracles were a hoax. if He is in fact the Son of God and the creator and sustainer of all life then you still would not be able to explain them away.

also, how smart do you have to be to identify the difference between someone who was dead that has been brought back to life? or someone who has been healed of leprosy? or someone who was blind since birth but was healed by Jesus??? david blain certainly doesn't do any of those things!!

1st. The onus is not on me. The onus is on those who make the claim that something exist. The Kuran states many things, but I don't see you disproving it. 2nd. I only stated pure fact. I NEVER stated my beliefs. 3. Don't take statement number about the Kuran as my belief. I'm not muslim. I just have many ideas. I wasn't saying Christianity is wrong, just that even if you're a Christian you don't have to sacrifice belief to look at possibilities.

[ShortBucRising]

Originally Posted by smallfry

Exactly schmicheal, God is sovergn(spelling?). So there-fore He already knows the beggining and the end, He knows who will accept Him and who won't. But that does not in no way mean He made the choice for you.
We have free will, when you stand before God and you'v rejected Him, you'l have no excuse. The Bible says "Now is the day of salvation." This life is our chance, our test if you will. Choose Him, He already "chose" everyone when Jesus took our sins upon Himself.

No man, free will is having the choice to go against what is planned for you. If God pre-ordained it, I can't go against it which means no free will. It's not a hard concept.

[ShortBucRising]

Originally Posted by schmichael

this is only true if Jesus' miracles were a hoax. if He is in fact the Son of God and the creator and sustainer of all life then you still would not be able to explain them away.

also, how smart do you have to be to identify the difference between someone who was dead that has been brought back to life? or someone who has been healed of leprosy? or someone who was blind since birth but was healed by Jesus??? david blain certainly doesn't do any of those things!!

People could not always explain comas or sicknesses where people apear dead or herbs/toxins that can give someone the effect of near death. I'll give you the leprosy ONLY b/c i'm not going to research. I'm only going off memory.