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03-10-2007, 03:31 PM
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The US did not lose the Vietnam War!
Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. (Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike, a professor at the University of California, Berkley a renowned expert on the Vietnam War) [Westmoreland] This included Tet 68, which was a major military defeat for the VC and NVA. THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE DID. Facts about the end of the war: The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their entirety 29 March 1973. How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam and a commitment to peaceful reunification. [1996 Information Please Almanac] The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for their lives. [1996 Information Please Almanac] There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. [1996 Information Please Almanac] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Myth: Most American soldiers were addicted to drugs, guilt-ridden about their role in the war, and deliberately used cruel and inhumane tactics. The facts are: 91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served [Westmoreland] 74% said they would serve again even knowing the outcome [Westmoreland] There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non veterans of the same age group (from a Veterans Administration study) [Westmoreland] Isolated atrocities committed by American soldiers produced torrents of outrage from antiwar critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any attention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 South Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and schoolteachers. [Nixon] Atrocities - every war has atrocities. War is brutal and not fair. Innocent people get killed. Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only 1/2 of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes. [Westmoreland] 97% were discharged under honorable conditions; the same percentage of honorable discharges as ten years prior to Vietnam [Westmoreland] 85% of Vietnam Veterans made a successful transition to civilian life. [McCaffrey] Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent. [McCaffrey] Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than our non-vet age group. [McCaffrey] 87% of the American people hold Vietnam Vets in high esteem. [McCaffrey] Myth: Most Vietnam veterans were drafted. 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. [Westmoreland] Approximately 70% of those killed were volunteers. [McCaffrey] Rest of the myths can be seen here: Statistics about the Vietnam War Your thoughts???? 
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03-10-2007, 07:22 PM
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Just about every battle in 'Nam looked like this:
9238478329 - - - Please refrain from using derogatory terms - - - killed 5 Americans killed We could never get a strategic advantage in 'Nam because of politics of the cold war. Militarily we dominated.
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"Train beyond the pain... and death is your only release." Steve Michalik Last edited by surferph34; 03-13-2007 at 01:26 AM.
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03-10-2007, 11:00 PM
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Good post Matt! Unfortunately, especially in today's high tech society, military victories do not sell as well as Military SNAFU's! Every journalist embedded with the troops wants to "break" some story and, frankly, a peaceful tour "outside the wire" doesn't make for a good news snipit! An IED exploding, and maybe a good fire fight, is just plain "common". The killing of a civillian! Frackin' Gold Mine!
For all who serve.... THANK YOU!
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Papasmurf: "there are no miracle supplements, fix your diet" http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39994
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03-11-2007, 03:30 AM
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Not on anybody's side, but since when wars are considered "wins" by the number of people lost. With war, both sides lose some. Last edited by surferph34; 03-13-2007 at 01:28 AM.
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03-11-2007, 06:44 AM
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with war there are no winners. governments make me sick. they send other peoples kids husbands and wives to do there dirty work. did you see farenheit 911 when michael moore was takin papers to sign up for iraq to polititions and askin them to sign there kids up for action. they looked at him as if he was insane, but yet they dont mind sendin other peoples. they're f.kin little worms who hide behind locked doors. these people who make the decisions should be the first to go.......
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th e y say mas tu rb a t io n eff e ct s th e abil i t y to r ea d thin g s pr o perly.
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03-11-2007, 01:32 PM
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mod @ steroidology.com mod @ healthandfitnesstalk.com
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03-12-2007, 07:41 AM
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Yeah presiden Johnson never actually delcared war.
You can say what you want, but in many ways Vietnam was a loss. It is sad that the war in Iraq is constantly being compared and is often called a "modern Vietnam." Support the troops. People may not support the war anymore, but the troops should not suffer for it.
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The Nintendo Wii: "It's a good idea but I dont see a grown ass man swinging the controller like a sword." -Lifter101
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03-12-2007, 07:50 AM
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The reason Vietnam is considered a loss is because we didn't accomplish our mission. The mission was a failure and thus our involvement in Vietnam. As I said before, this is because of politics of the cold war, not because our military was outclassed. The same will be said about Iraq.
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"Train beyond the pain... and death is your only release." Steve Michalik
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03-12-2007, 10:30 AM
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03-12-2007, 12:32 PM
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world war 1,2..... millions died. how can anyone be a winner.
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th e y say mas tu rb a t io n eff e ct s th e abil i t y to r ea d thin g s pr o perly.
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03-12-2007, 12:36 PM
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the americans and european militarys combined will never be competed with. not in our time anyway.
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th e y say mas tu rb a t io n eff e ct s th e abil i t y to r ea d thin g s pr o perly.
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03-12-2007, 07:23 PM
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....and all this philosophical bs about we're all losers is for the birds. Winning and losing a war, or conflict, or whatever else you want to call it is determined by who set their will on who. Tell the Indians the Americans lost. They still won't have their lands. The Germans and the axis powers LOST. If they had won the world would be seen through the Nazis eyes, not those of independent nations. Japan got their arse kicked in the Pacific, that's why they got nuked. America lost in Vietnam because their policies contradicted a successful military operation. South Vietnam is a Communist country because of that. Both sides have casualties, yes, but in lieu of a stalemate there are definite winners and losers and consequences that go along with both.
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"Train beyond the pain... and death is your only release." Steve Michalik Last edited by Merk0135; 03-12-2007 at 07:34 PM.
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03-12-2007, 07:43 PM
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Secondly, you ask, How can anyone be a winner? That one is easy to answer. Hitler was stopped wasnt he? His regime was responsible for over 20 million murders!!!!! We stopped him and the world was saved from an evil mass murderous killer. Thus we were ALL winners!!!! In case you want to facts on the Nazi killings. Jews murdered under Nazi rule = 5,993,900 Non-Jews murdered in the Holocaust = 16 to 20 million (including the elderly, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Homosexuals, etc.). That war was a justified one, dont try to argue about war when it's a justified one. WWI was also justified as we were attacked at Pearl Harbor and we did what we had to as a country to protect itself. You are further ahead to use this war in Iraq now to make your points as WWI and II were undeniably justified and were absolutely needed. We have a military for a reason. Last edited by BiggerGuns=LongerDrives; 03-12-2007 at 07:48 PM.
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03-13-2007, 02:32 AM
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