our situation

[codemonkee]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Really, like the way we went into Iraq and kicked ass and took names? Bwahahaha. Our military is a joke.

like i said we havent even come close to doing what we could really do in iraq. trust me. that is all i can really say. i dont blame bush for the war not going 100% the way we expected. i blame the liberal anti american media and anti american democrats (kerry, murtha etc..) for turning it into a political battle. if we took the kid gloves off and went in full force there wouldnt be an insurgent left in iraq. but to do that do u know what we have to do? (and i'm NOT talking about nukes either) and you think the anti american media will let that happen?. if i were president i wouldnt care but the politicans (dem and republican) care too much about how they are portrayed in the media. the good stuff is never reported. all you hear about his soldiers getting killed and civilians getting killed. that stuff happens yes and it should be reported but it is 100% negative all the time. if kerry would have won the election (God forbid) he would have given into the liberal whining and we would have cut and run, making us look weak and afraid of conflict once again.
our military is the strongest military in the history of the world. to say it is a joke is pure non sense, sorry i respect your opinion but it is non sense. you really think our military couldnt defend our country if attacked? come on...

[codemonkee]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Ok, I shouldnt have made a blanket statement like that. I really blame all the shortcomings of our military on the Commander in Chief not on the troops themselves.

bush received an overwhelming majority of the military vote in 2000 and 2004. that should tell you something about how the troops feel about him. not to mention when i was in the military i barely ever heard anyone utter a bad word about him. all i heard was how much better it was under bush than under clinton. they were proud to serve under bush. as was I. i just thank god clinton left office a few months after i got in

[krenalor]

Originally Posted by meriaiza

Man i would love to throw you right in the midel of that war so your problems will get solved this way.Life is complicated as it is.We dont need any more wars.Like i told you before its not about the fact that wether ams33 is a liar or not.There are millions of people out there whose life is in danger out there,not to forget the countless people who have already died.Dont you give a sh!t about them?Its easy for people like you to say that wars solve problems by sitting in the comfert of your home knowing that there wont be a bomb droped on your house that will end you along with your family but try putting your self in the middel of the war along with your family.

Been there, not fun, I would like to throw you in a city being hit by rockets and nothing being done about it, right back at you. I didn't sit in the "comfort of my own home". But you sit in the comfort of your own home and condemn ONLY the Isreali side, you are an anti-Semite and filled with hate for everyone that is not a Muslim like our lying friend. No one is posting from Beriut, be for real.

A peace treaty was being brokered, Isreal accepted-Hezbollah did not, now what you have to say? I can guess "death to all infidels", well get what you would sow I say.

My take on the situation:
Hezbollah disarm and leave Lebenon

Isreal help Lebenon rebuild and next time do a better job on not causing needless civilian deaths, some of the targets hit really shouldn't have been hit.

Syria and Iran help Isreal rebuild, they gave the rockets to Hezbollah and are directly (not yet proven) or indirectly responsible.

Lebenon be more responsible as a nation and don't allow one faction to selfishly act on it's own.

And if AMS is really there, get out and get safe, I sure the heck wouldn't be posting here at this time.

See our liberals friends don't get it, so let me clue you in. The terrorist hide behind women and children and refuse to openly fight. So when Isreal invades they will empty the town, of women and children only, so the terrorist don't sneak out. That means every male age 16-50 doesn't get to leave. Then they level the place, doesn't matter, since terrorist refuse to wear uniforms all males left die.
It is illegal to fight and not wear a uniform, and if the terrorist followed simple rules it wouldn't be the way it is. So blame the blatantly evil terrorists for that happening. BTW, same thing happens in Iraq when a city rebels.

[meriaiza]

[quote=krenalor]you are an anti-Semite and filled with hate for everyone that is not a Muslim like our lying friend.

Can you prove these claims that you are makeing?If not then shut the **** up!I am not against jews or christions or anyone except Isreal.Most people around here dont even belive in God but when ever some **** happens they start blameing It on Him and start makeing it a war between differant religans.Why is that?Why are you saying i hate everyone that is not a muslim?Can you give atleast 1prove?

Like i said a thousand times before,it doesnt matter if ams is reporting from lebenon or not.There are countless people who have already died in lebenon.It doesnt matter wether they are muslims or not,in the end they are humen beings like you and i.We all agree on the fact that Isreal has a supperior army.Then why are they invading from air and killing countles people in that proces?Surely if theyll send there army in therell be a lot less casualities.

[krenalor]

Less people die if they invade!!?? Did you read..

That means every male age 16-50 doesn't get to leave. Then they level the place, doesn't matter, since terrorist refuse to wear uniforms all males left die

[ams33]

it s has been a long hard time ,......first let me just say that i was really shocked when i discovered how fanatic some people are in here.....i am ready to enter a discussion with anyone that is willing to use his mind and hae no stereotype against anyone , the last thing i need is someone who consider every act of violence done by some party as justified and every reaction by the other as terrorist , the last thing i need is a brain washed person to argue with , the last thing i need is a fanatic religious who see one group of people as the chosen people of god , and finally the last thing i need is someone who think he can rule the world just because his country has nukes ..........................i was reallly shocked from what i ve heard , i used to belive that the USA is a democratic country who is not biased , all this collapsed for many reasons.

the 9/11 attacks gave the bush admin the everlasting excuse to do whatever it wants in the name of : fighting terrorist , what i ve noticed is that most americans sympathize with israel for 2 reasons :

1- they think that like them israel is being attacked by terrorists and they feel that like them they are innocents and all their acts that follow are acts of self-defense

2-some other group (and i am sad that some mentally retarded people like those still exist in the 21st century ) sympathize with israel bec of religious belief that israel should overtake the promised land and should defend it .

the thing that made me laugh , is how simple some of u are : for ex : codemonkee (with my respect to you and with no offence) when codemonkee said that hezbollah is going to get to america and fight the US if they win against israel ....i hope u were kidding , bec if not i can see how ur gov is making u live in an unjustified phobia till now , relax dear al qaeda wont hit again unless if the US is planing to invade a new country .

lets back to our discussion and again , i am not ready to argue with anyone that is blindly supporting one side bec i am not ........

israel was attacked , 2 soldiers captured and she have the right to get them back but not BY ANY MEAN ....lets go back a little bit backward

where were u when israel ocuupied 25% of lebanon ?
where were u when israelis occupied beirut in 1982?
there was no hezbollah at that time .......
where were u when israel refused to do the UN resolution 425 ?

let s admit it hezbollah was formed as a reaction to the israeli occupation and through resistance it forced israel to retreat , how come u call them terrorist while the true cause for their existance was israel itself? or u deny even the simplest right for any human : self defense .....

now, why no one cared or said anything about lebanese prisoners in israel , hezbollah tried a lot of diplomatic way to get them back israel was always refusing .....why ?

and now when hezbollah wanted to gt back the prisoners and made a small mistake all the world turned against it and now he is the terrorist ...funny eh ....the cause of hezbollah is right , the way he has done it is wrong(kidnapping the soldiers)

keep in mind that hezbollah fired the rockets only in response to the barberic savage attack on the civilians and infra structure or do u want them to smile for the israeli while the re bombing them ....so this israeli operation is not an act of self defense against rockets bec they could ve avoided all this from the begining .

israel took the land of the palestinians and other arab countries so she put hereself in trouble from the begining .......and dont say to me that the land belong to the israeli just bec some histroy books (u cant be sure of their accuracy) say that jews lived in there 1000 s years ago , in that sense red-indians have the right to kick americans out bec most of them camef rom europe ........

so how come u justify all the acts of israel ???!!!!!!!!!!!! i am truly surprised of how insensitive and cruel some people are .....

peace process will not work as long as the israeli or anyone see himself as being superior or they re the chosen people of god .......

i am not against alll israelis cuz i knw some of em re against the barberic actions of their gov , i hold nothing against jews but all i know is when someone break in into ur house u have every right to defend urself ......................

[fumbrunner]

I really do sympothize with you ams. And I completely agree with everything that you said there. It's funny how Israel continually states how threatened they feel and meanwhile are receiving $4 B US in Military aid every year.

There is a simple solution to all of this. Revert back to pre-67 borders, establish a UN-enforced buffer zone between Israel, Gaza, West Bank, etc.

Unfortunately, Israel does not seem to play ball with the only legitimate interantional body (the UN).

And now I am reading the latest horrifying attack, this time in Qana. Apparently all those children are potential terrorists.

[krenalor]

There is a simple reason Israel is against the UN policing the border, they are absolutely useless. Now if NATO did it they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and that may happen.
In case you forget, during WW2 General Bradley ordered the carpet bombing of German troop cencentrations, many thousands of French citizens including many children died in that attack that broke the German Army in France. Lebenon's losses are a mere fraction of the number killed in that single attack. Something like 2000 heavy bombers just flattened the area completely. He was not condemned because he saved allied troops lives.
It's your utter lack of any military knowledge that is under attack. Leaving bridges and infrastructure intact is ludicriss and so are your arguments. You can not allow an enemy to continue to receive outside support.
Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and Israel are all equally at fault and Lebenon is caught in the middle of the B.S.. Hopefully this crap storm blows over and NATO seperates the morons from fighting each other with the poor Lebenese caught in the middle.
I feel for Lebenon, what the heck did they ever do to get stuck here? Being next to Israel has caused them way to much grief. Let Israel, Syrai, and Iran fight it out somewhere else. Lets put them all near each other so they can beat each others brains out and get others out of the middle.

[ams33]

Originally Posted by krenalor

There is a simple reason Israel is against the UN policing the border, they are absolutely useless. Now if NATO did it they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and that may happen.
In case you forget, during WW2 General Bradley ordered the carpet bombing of German troop cencentrations, many thousands of French citizens including many children died in that attack that broke the German Army in France. Lebenon's losses are a mere fraction of the number killed in that single attack. Something like 2000 heavy bombers just flattened the area completely. He was not condemned because he saved allied troops lives.
It's your utter lack of any military knowledge that is under attack. Leaving bridges and infrastructure intact is ludicriss and so are your arguments. You can not allow an enemy to continue to receive outside support.
Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and Israel are all equally at fault and Lebenon is caught in the middle of the B.S.. Hopefully this crap storm blows over and NATO seperates the morons from fighting each other with the poor Lebenese caught in the middle.
I feel for Lebenon, what the heck did they ever do to get stuck here? Being next to Israel has caused them way to much grief. Let Israel, Syrai, and Iran fight it out somewhere else. Lets put them all near each other so they can beat each others brains out and get others out of the middle.

what most of you here are mistaken is that civilians are mistakenly attacked and thats war ....i accept that if so , but israel is wiillingly attacking buildings and civilians ..now everyone can claim they hide terrorists or hizbollah or weapons , i myself would like to belive that cuz i dont like even to think that there are new nazis on our borders but can u give one prrof everytime they strike i see no weapons on fire no hezbollah members ...nothing just womens and childrens ..???? 600 civilians and how many hezbollah members : 50 100 ???/where s the proof ??.......this is not a victory , where s the manhood and power in dropping 25 tons bomb on civilians ........what do qana s chidlrens do ???? where are the rocket launchers they claim to hit ? where are they ....show us ...i really want to see ......let s admit it ....israelis are careless about those civilians and childrens ....do u know what the word goyim means in hebrew ...i ll tell u : everything not jew ...people who are created to serve the jews ...inferior than animals and plants ..for them ...........what are we ???? numbers to them ?? bugs? animals ? ...i bet if u see them attack cats or dogs like that most of u will shed tears ......and after all that they wonder why there s an ongoing hate towards israel and the US....i myself am no longer a beliver in the US democracy and human rights ....admit it folks they are acting like some empire .....like the nazis ...and keep in mind that i am tottaly 100% against the attacks in the US territories (9/11)...and i pitty al qaeda too ....but it s because of this abuse of force and american arrogance this violence is spreading ....nazis falled down bec of this arrogance , USSR too ....read history u ll see the fate of all such injustice ...........this is not against u krenalor , dont take it personal , am just sooo angry from what i ve saw in qana,and from the US position can u tll me why the US used the veto in the UN in order not even to condemn this israeli massacre i think this is way beyond anyone s limit of support this is soo rude , plz go to any website or tv and see urself how childrens and womens died ....something that break apart any HUMAN heart

[krenalor]

I honestly think Israel did the massacre on purpose. Thats how messed up this is, to get Hezbollah to stop they would stoop that low. Like the Iran/Iraq war that I think Iran intentionally had an airliner fly out there so it would get shot down. If enough innocents die the world gets pissed and ends it. That would be really low, so I am on your side AMS.
This crap needs to end now, Lebenon needs to belong to Lebenese and Hezbollah can go home and Israel stay on their side of the border.
I am against every party involved in this crap~not one side, just stop fighting!

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by krenalor

Now if NATO did it they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and that may happen.
Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, and Israel are all equally at fault and Lebenon is caught in the middle of the B.S.. Hopefully this crap storm blows over and NATO seperates the morons from fighting each other with the poor Lebenese caught in the middle.
I feel for Lebenon, what the heck did they ever do to get stuck here? Being next to Israel has caused them way to much grief. Let Israel, Syrai, and Iran fight it out somewhere else. Lets put them all near each other so they can beat each others brains out and get others out of the middle.

Great Post! I agree that a NATO force would be better (ie..Kosovo) and you are absolutely correct that the Lebonese are caught in the middle of a larger battle. BUT Israelis seem to have a lack of intelligence on their targets. The UN force that was killed a few days ago were in constant communication with Israel and that didnt stop them from dropping a precision missle on them. I agree with you on attacking infrastructure, but there have been too many cases of civilian casualties.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by codemonkee

bush received an overwhelming majority of the military vote in 2000 and 2004. that should tell you something about how the troops feel about him. not to mention when i was in the military i barely ever heard anyone utter a bad word about him. all i heard was how much better it was under bush than under clinton. they were proud to serve under bush. as was I. i just thank god clinton left office a few months after i got in

Jesus christ you military and ex military are so brainwashed you cant even see it. But thats what the military does, be it for good or for bad(well, good for them, bad for you). They pretty much take away your ability to think as an individual.

[Hannainnc]

Originally Posted by codemonkee

bush received an overwhelming majority of the military vote in 2000 and 2004. that should tell you something about how the troops feel about him. not to mention when i was in the military i barely ever heard anyone utter a bad word about him. all i heard was how much better it was under bush than under clinton. they were proud to serve under bush. as was I. i just thank god clinton left office a few months after i got in

Maybe then, but not now. I live close to Fort Bragg...one of the largest Army installations and interact with many enlisted soldiers and soldiers that have deployed and returned from Iraq. For these soldiers that have the wherewith all to think for themselves, they realize that this administration falls well short of optimal.

[codemonkee]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Jesus christ you military and ex military are so brainwashed you cant even see it. But thats what the military does, be it for good or for bad(well, good for them, bad for you). They pretty much take away your ability to think as an individual.

hmm everyone in the military (or ex military) is brainwashed? lol. i'll just let you think that cause i wont be able to convince you otherwise. i will speak for myself though because i thought the way i do long before i joined the military. actually i joined the military because i think the way i do. so joining the military absolutely did not brainwash me. and just remember who fights and protects your freedom. all that "brainwashed" military, you should have a little more respect for the military which protects your right to say things like that no matter how untrue it may be.

also i dont understand how i'm "brainwashed" because the stated the FACT that bush received an overwhelming majority of the military votes. are you saying that just because he is the commander in chief we voted for him cause we are brainwashed? if that is what you are trying to say (and i'm not sure if it is or not) then that is totally wrong because clinton didnt even come close to the majority of military votes when he was commander in chief. but we're all brainwashed huh?

[codemonkee]

Originally Posted by Hannainnc

Maybe then, but not now. I live close to Fort Bragg...one of the largest Army installations and interact with many enlisted soldiers and soldiers that have deployed and returned from Iraq. For these soldiers that have the wherewith all to think for themselves, they realize that this administration falls well short of optimal.

i gaurentee that if bush ran again in 2008 (or right now for that matter) against ANY democrat he would still receive an overwhelming majority of the military votes. we'll never know cause he cant run again but i will bet that whoever the republican is will get the major majority of military votes (and for good reason). so dont give me the bull that you talk to soldiers (which i am sure was only a handful, if any) and they dont like bush. im sure you can find a few, obviously, but dont talk like most of them dont like him cause that is just ridiculous bullsh*t i talked to thousands of military personal in my time. i just recently got out and even up the day i got out the vast majority still supported bush and were proud to serve under him. i'll say it again. have another election right now and bush will still receive an overwhelming majority. you think the military wants to serve under traitor John kerry? or hilliary, or murtha? dont make me laugh. why do u think bush (41) and dole got overwhelming military majority over clinton? trust me, the people in the military hate democrats. and that is the truth from a military person. not someone who "lives near a base and talked to a few soldiers". you either are flat out lying or heard from a few that dont like bush so you assume that that is how most people feel. either way it just shows you're ignorant.

[Hannainnc]

Originally Posted by codemonkee

i gaurentee that if bush ran again in 2008 (or right now for that matter) against ANY democrat he would still receive an overwhelming majority of the military votes. we'll never know cause he cant run again but i will bet that whoever the republican is will get the major majority of military votes (and for good reason). so dont give me the bull that you talk to soldiers (which i am sure was only a handful, if any) and they dont like bush. im sure you can find a few, obviously, but dont talk like most of them dont like him cause that is just ridiculous bullsh*t i talked to thousands of military personal in my time. i just recently got out and even up the day i got out the vast majority still supported bush and were proud to serve under him. i'll say it again. have another election right now and bush will still receive an overwhelming majority. you think the military wants to serve under traitor John kerry? or hilliary, or murtha? dont make me laugh. why do u think bush (41) and dole got overwhelming military majority over clinton? trust me, the people in the military hate democrats. and that is the truth from a military person. not someone who "lives near a base and talked to a few soldiers". you either are flat out lying or heard from a few that dont like bush so you assume that that is how most people feel. either way it just shows you're ignorant.

I do live in a military town and work with several military wives. My husband was enlisted for eight years here at Bragg, deployed to Kosovo and Afghanistan and still works as a civilian on post, around the post...speaking with many as a federal policeman. I'm no expert and I would not venture to say I speak with "thousands" of military personnel either and perhaps we associate with like-minded people....it is blatantly obvious that you do the same.

Bush might win the military vote because his plan calls for endless job security. No need to get snippy when someone disagrees with your post. You are obviously a huah kind of guy...take a gun, follow orders without question. Do what the big guy tells ya, the perfect soldier.That is great for you. Kudos.

Why again did you get out of the military?

[codemonkee]

Originally Posted by Hannainnc

I do live in a military town and work with several military wives. My husband was enlisted for eight years here at Bragg, deployed to Kosovo and Afghanistan and still works as a civilian on post, around the post...speaking with many as a federal policeman. I'm no expert and I would not venture to say I speak with "thousands" of military personnel either and perhaps we associate with like-minded people....it is blatantly obvious that you do the same.

Bush might win the military vote because his plan calls for endless job security. No need to get snippy when someone disagrees with your post. You are obviously a huah kind of guy...take a gun, follow orders without question. Do what the big guy tells ya, the perfect soldier.That is great for you. Kudos.

Why again did you get out of the military?

endless job security? lol what a joke. you have 100% job security in the military whether bush is in charge, clinton, miss piggy , whether there is a war or no war. it doesnt matter. that is not why he will win the military vote. you have a lot to learn. during the 2004 election i could find not one person, litterally not one person in my whole command that wasnt voting for bush. did i ask them all? no but i asked a good 80% and every one of them was voting for bush. i suspect their minds having changed one bit.
its not that you disagreed that "i got snippy" it was cause your post was ridiculous and full of lies that i totally debunked. and now your reasoning for why he would win the military vote is even more ridiculous. is that the best you could come up with? i can tell you are one of those hate bush at any cost and you cant believe that not everyone thinks like you. well just in case you didnt know he got more votes in 2004 than any president ever got in the history of the country. so again like i said, the military will always vote for the republican. i can list many many reasons why but i wont. so dont go trying to convince people that the military personal doesnt like bush or doesnt believe in the war like all you liberals (especially the media) try to portray. i'm not going to speak for the military families that are left behind because i dont know. i am sure alot dont like it cause their husbands are sent overseas for long periods of time but the fact is most military personal love bush and completely believe in the cause.

oh and why did i get out? i know you are asking as if you got something on me. like "ooh if bush was so great why did u get out then"... well if you must know, even though it is none of your dam business. my wife was killed in a car accident and i had to get out since i had a son to care for and it is kind of hard to take care of a child while you are overseas in a war. but thanks for asking..