Steroid/Hormone Use- Good or Bad?

[RRAdam]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

Does anyone think steroids are bad for you?

Thats far too broad of a question to ask... steroid abuse is super-bad for you, responsible, planned, and carfeful use of steroids do not pose a problem. The reason for all the flak lately is that you cant get that use because steroids have been santanized and thrown so far underground its hard to use them wisely. I am a libertarian, so I think all drugs should be legal - though that is a little beside the point, I think that responsible use of steroids should be allowed and encouraged, and irresponsible use of steroids should be legal, but discouraged.

[krenalor]

Steroids are bad due to idiots.

>Under 21 year olds refuse to listen, and take them anyway. How many have come on here and posted "adults are idiots, I am 15 and know everything, you said not to use steroids but I am gonna anyway!"?

>Many steroids are marketed as non-steroids, SD anyone? Some of the companies selling it have claimed it isn't a steroid. Then you have people with no right to own the stuff using it, and on top of it they have no idea what a PCT is. I in fact bought a bottle, thank goodness I researched it. It is put away, and maybe...MAYBE...before it is expired I might use it. Got till 11/08 and counting.

>Morons that think, "if a little of this is good, more is better!".

>"I don't need Nolvadex <insert dumb reason here>"....sigh....

Now if it was main stream, like liquor, it would be okay....??!! We tried that as a country before, dismil failure is to nice of a word for it. Or even smoking, how many brand new smokers do you see? I see to many, and these idiots know how dangerous they are, in fact smoking will kill you eventually. But tabacco companies have politicians and money on their side.

[vassille]

If you understand and respect these drugs they are a powerful tool to get good results.

I believe that many are iresponsible and do not undestand what it takes to do them. I hear too many times from some people if asked what are you going to do if you have a reaction to them and sometimes the answer is I do not know, or I do not care- I want to get big!
I rest my case

[MaggioMuscle]

Here are more reasons that keep me natural:

1. I want to be strong, inside and out.
2. I want to be healthly, inside and out.
3. I want to be clean and pure: mind, body and soul.
4. I want to be a REAL winner.
5. I am not interested in being big to show and impress others.
6. I work to achieve my own personal potential.
7. If I start, I will never stop. Roid users eventually become abusers. If they don't keep using, they start loosing.
8. Anthony Catanzaro http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson138.htm
9. I want to be fair.
10. I want to set a positive example for others, especially young athletes.
11. I do not wish to support the illegal drug trade, manuafacturing practices or take steroids meant for a real patient who needs them. They all come from one of these three places.
12. I never want to feel guilty.
13. I don't want my self image to reflect bad choices.
14. I never take short cuts in life. I never cheat on my exams at school or cheat my boss out of money at work. I am all about the hard Italian work ethic I was raised with.
15. I never want to do something that distracts from my ultimate goal- to be the best me I can be. Taking steroids would make me less, not more. On the outside I would be bigger, on the inside, smaller.
16. I will always be able to look into the eyes of a roid user and know what I have acheived came from within!

[TRAZ]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

Here are more reasons that keep me natural:

1. I want to be strong, inside and out.
2. I want to be healthly, inside and out.
3. I want to be clean and pure: mind, body and soul.
4. I want to be a REAL winner.
5. I am not interested in being big to show and impress others.
6. I work to achieve my own personal potential.
7. If I start, I will never stop. Roid users eventually become abusers. If they don't keep using, they start loosing.
8. Anthony Catanzaro http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson138.htm
9. I want to be fair.
10. I want to set a positive example for others, especially young athletes.
11. I do not wish to support the illegal drug trade, manuafacturing practices or take steroids meant for a real patient who needs them. They all come from one of these three places.
12. I never want to feel guilty.
13. I don't want my self image to reflect bad choices.
14. I never take short cuts in life. I never cheat on my exams at school or cheat my boss out of money at work. I am all about the hard Italian work ethic I was raised with.
15. I never want to do something that distracts from my ultimate goal- to be the best me I can be. Taking steroids would make me less, not more. On the outside I would be bigger, on the inside, smaller.
16. I will always be able to look into the eyes of a roid user and know what I have acheived came from within!

All very valid points...

I am all-natural myself, but do not have any problems with people who want to use gear. I, myself, may try some at some point....

BTW who is Anthony Cantanzaro? *Edit* Ok...the link wasn't showing up at first...

[skibumm233]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

Here are more reasons that keep me natural:

1. I want to be strong, inside and out.
2. I want to be healthly, inside and out.
3. I want to be clean and pure: mind, body and soul.
4. I want to be a REAL winner.
5. I am not interested in being big to show and impress others.
6. I work to achieve my own personal potential.
7. If I start, I will never stop. Roid users eventually become abusers. If they don't keep using, they start loosing.
8. Anthony Catanzaro http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson138.htm
9. I want to be fair.
10. I want to set a positive example for others, especially young athletes.
11. I do not wish to support the illegal drug trade, manuafacturing practices or take steroids meant for a real patient who needs them. They all come from one of these three places.
12. I never want to feel guilty.
13. I don't want my self image to reflect bad choices.
14. I never take short cuts in life. I never cheat on my exams at school or cheat my boss out of money at work. I am all about the hard Italian work ethic I was raised with.
15. I never want to do something that distracts from my ultimate goal- to be the best me I can be. Taking steroids would make me less, not more. On the outside I would be bigger, on the inside, smaller.
16. I will always be able to look into the eyes of a roid user and know what I have acheived came from within!

Thanks for the afterschool special, i feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[MaggioMuscle]

Originally Posted by skibumm233

Thanks for the afterschool special, i feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Its a personal choice, I respect that. Not looking for sarcasm, just sharing my thoughts and wish to hear yours.

[mywetnightmares]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

Here are more reasons that keep me natural:

1. I want to be strong, inside and out.
2. I want to be healthly, inside and out.
3. I want to be clean and pure: mind, body and soul.
4. I want to be a REAL winner.
5. I am not interested in being big to show and impress others.
6. I work to achieve my own personal potential.
7. If I start, I will never stop. Roid users eventually become abusers. If they don't keep using, they start loosing.
8. Anthony Catanzaro http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson138.htm
9. I want to be fair.
10. I want to set a positive example for others, especially young athletes.
11. I do not wish to support the illegal drug trade, manuafacturing practices or take steroids meant for a real patient who needs them. They all come from one of these three places.
12. I never want to feel guilty.
13. I don't want my self image to reflect bad choices.
14. I never take short cuts in life. I never cheat on my exams at school or cheat my boss out of money at work. I am all about the hard Italian work ethic I was raised with.
15. I never want to do something that distracts from my ultimate goal- to be the best me I can be. Taking steroids would make me less, not more. On the outside I would be bigger, on the inside, smaller.
16. I will always be able to look into the eyes of a roid user and know what I have acheived came from within!

1.) I don't see how this one is a reason not to use steroids since steroids can help you achieve this goal.
2.) The health risks of steroids are often exaggerated, especially when used responsibly, I've seen bloodwork come back from people just getting off a long cycle and things were pretty much in normal ranges.
3.) Are you implying that steroids are somehow dirty? Or that they will corrupt you and turn you into a bad person?
4.) That's right, I forgot, when people use steroids they don't actually have to do the work, the steroids they use do it for them. In fact every person I've ever known to use steroids is lazy, has a horrible diet and routine, and just wants a quick fix.
5.) Niether are a lot of people who use steroids, a lot of people want to see how far they can really push themselves, not how far mother nature tells them they can push themselves.
6.) You work to see how far your genetics will allow you to go, not what your real personal potential is.
7.) Of course I should have seen this one coming, it's true though, I mean look at alcohol, anyone who starts drinking will eventually become an alcoholic.
8.) As soon as he mentions that using steroids puts you at risk for HIV I stopped reading, He doesn't know what he's talking about.
9.) You want to be fair to who, yourself? Others? Some random guy at the gym that you have a little unspoken competition with to see who can be the best so that at night you can go home and stoke your ego because you put up 5 pounds more than the other guy and you did it NATURALLY?
10.) You want to set a positive example fine, go ahead, but don't act like resposible steroid use is setting a bad example. Think about it, when your kid turns on the tv and all he sees are athletes being busted for using gear that doesn't send the message that you shouldn't use, it sends the message that you have to if you wanna be on top. Set a good example by educating children on why they should wait rather than just tell them, "steroids are the devil."
11.) The steroid black market and say, the cocaine black market are like black and white. Many times over I've heard of people who's source would try to counsel them on how to use things most effectively and safely so that they don't mess themselves up. How often do you hear about a coke dealer trying to counsel his customers on the safety of his merchandise?
12.) Why would you feel guilty, you're not doing anything wrong.
13.) Steroid use isn't a bad coice, it's neutral choice, that's like saying picking burger king over mcdonald's is a bad choice.
14.) Using steroids is not necessarily a shortcut if you've reached your genetic potential. Nor is it cheating in any way, shape, or form.
15.) Umm see number 5
16.) That's fine you do that, and he'll look into your eyes and see a man who's can live with being less than his best and who can live with excuses.

You act like using steroids is so bad, that it's cheating, but you know what, I've met people like you all my life. I used to be one in fact. After I beat them in a race, put up more weight than them, in highschool when I won a match all I heard was excuses. "I could have run faster if I hadn't had a cigarette on my way over here." "I could put up just as much weight if I spent all my time in the gym." "I could have won that match if I took supplements." I was somebody like that once. Then something in me snapped and I said fvck being second best, fvck losing, fvck excuses. That's why I use gear, so that I can get up in the morning and look myself in the mirror knowing that I've done everything possible to be my best, I flip mother nature the bird and I go about my business. See, I can't live with excuses, can you?

[MaggioMuscle]

Originally Posted by mywetnightmares

You act like using steroids is so bad, that it's cheating, but you know what, I've met people like you all my life. I used to be one in fact.

Time will tell. Hope you don't come full circle. What are your thoughts, mywetnightmares, on the link I provided? Don't close your mind just because you disagree with one point. (BTW, since when doesn't sharing needles put you at risk for HIV? yes, I know, you dont share, but that was his point)

What is interesting to me about young bodybuilders is that they cling to what their doctors say and what they read and scientific data and warnings only when that information serves their interests. If it does not, then they attribute ulterior motives to the same sources they would otherwise respect. There is some sense of arrogance that one can figure out what others, including doctors, have not. Steroid users think they know how to use without side effects. The endocrine system is incredibly complex; no doctor or scientist could say with as much certainty as a "self-educated" steroid user that they figured it out.

[X_puritan_X]

I personally would never do steroids but I have nothing against people who do. I'll let my genetics decide how large I can get, not drugs. It's like bald guys who get hair transplants...it just looks funny. The bald guy is bald because his genes said so. When you go against nature (or God) and give that bald guy hair, it just looks wrong.
Just like these roided out monsters at my gym. You can tell that they shouldnt be that big because their genes said so but no, they go against nature and they look funny. I feel sad for them actually...relying on drugs to be something they are not supposed to be. I am bigger than a lot of them and I've never had to resort to doing roids.
I guess it all boils down to self image and why you workout in the first place. I started lifting to be healthy, not to be Arnold in 2 years! My goal isnt to be huge but to keep making personal gains. If I become bigger thats great but it is not my only goal. Im not that vain!!! I sometime peruse the 'steroid' section of this board and god, I cant see how you guys can do that...shooting roids into muscles...my god. You really are f**king with you mind, body and soul. Once again I have nothing against those that juice but it does seem to be a bit odd to do steroids that destroy your body in order to 'look', not be healthy.

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

What is interesting to me about young bodybuilders is that they cling to what their doctors say and what they read and scientific data and warnings only when that information serves their interests. If it does not, then they attribute ulterior motives to the same sources they would otherwise respect. There is some sense of arrogance that one can figure out what others, including doctors, have not. Steroid users think they know how to use without side effects. The endocrine system is incredibly complex; no doctor or scientist could say with as much certainty as a "self-educated" steroid user that they figured it out.

Like everything you said.. it's easy to say, but doesnt really mean anythingl.

You think I know more then doctors? You think I don't know that I am permenantly damaging my endocrine system? You think I don't know that vanity and insecuriteis and full on wish to be the best(strongest one can be) don't play a role in my choice?

I know all these things, and I also believe that most educated users do... but it's not something that most is willing to talk about.

Nothing you said has made me think.. cause none of it contains one ounce of information i haven't already thought about. You certainly don't seem to think much of other abilities to think for themselves, based on all your comments.

It's choice, and it's far less riskier and dangerous then smoking or drinking.. it's a choice that I can live with.. And If you don't think i train hard, You should come and see me sometime.

peace.

[MaggioMuscle]

Originally Posted by X_puritan_X

I guess it all boils down to self image and why you workout in the first place. I started lifting to be healthy, not to be Arnold in 2 years!

Rock on! Me too! It's about health and positive self image not vanity and ego.

[MaggioMuscle]

Originally Posted by Poobah

You think I don't know that I am permenantly damaging my endocrine system?

Great comments, Poobah. Thanks. Not trying to change anyones mind here and like I said before, I respect personal choice on this issue.

Actually, most guys have not been as honest as you or seem as in touch with reality as you. The other comments on this thread are like "the risk associated with responsible steroid use is MUCH lower than you think" and [you can use as long as you don't overuse or abuse] and "I believe if done under the right cercumstaces and for the right reasons, not over doing it there is nothing wrong with it...". I could go on and on with quotes from this thread of people saying steroids will not mess you up if used right or for the right reasons. Most people DO deny the problems. You do not. Most are not educated or ignore warnings. You do not.

Originally Posted by Poobah

it's far less riskier and dangerous then smoking or drinking

Huh? You can smoke for 20-30 years before problems develop, same with drinking. Do you know anyone who has used steroid garbage that long without abnormal liver function tests (liver damage), sterility, acne, roid rage, etc? Doesn't it take far less time to create this damage? What percentage of users never develop these problems as a function of time on the drugs? I don't know. But your statement about risk is counterintuitive to me.

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by MaggioMuscle

Huh? You can smoke for 20-30 years before problems develop, same with drinking. Do you know anyone who has used steroid garbage that long without abnormal liver function tests (liver damage), sterility, acne, roid rage, etc? Doesn't it take far less time to create this damage? What percentage of users never develop these problems as a function of time on the drugs? I don't know. But your statement about risk is counterintuitive to me.

No, I beleive I'm correct.

Yes, the m1t kiddies accross the united states.. would be an exception to the rule... but we are trying to talk about responsible usage.

Steroids, injectibles.. Do not cause liver and kidney damage.. Oral steroids can cause damage overtime, but if cycled properly.. your liver is made to take abuse, and it's has the ability to repair itself, as long as you use responsibly. Alchohol can be and is much more devastating, prescription drugs aswell.... cause people who drink to much, keep drinking to much and keep swallowing to many pills. Orals in most cases shouldn't be taken longer then 4 to 6 weeks.. and then you should have at least 2 months to months without any alchohol or more orals to allow your liver to heal itself. A responsible user won't mess with that, cause they know if they do they will be risking thier health.

Drinkers require, endless liver transplants across north america... Did you know that there is little or no documented proof that steroids was a leading cause of death in someone.. Smoking and drinking, is responsible for like a ridiculous percentage of health care costs in this country.

[Vegita]

Yes maybe alot of people may choose to ignore the warning singns and just keep on doing it...
Every person is intiteld to his or her own opion let me ask you this..
How many people do you know of that have died or had serios damage to there bodies becouse of steriods...?
I am talking about woman or people under 22 or so..
I mean adult male's that has used it experieced it and got gains from it?
http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/hbosteroids/ please go to this link and se what the top dogs had to say about it..
I could not attach the zip file..

[MaggioMuscle]

Originally Posted by Poobah

Steroids, injectibles.. Do not cause liver and kidney damage.

All your liver tests have always come back normal since you started using injectables? And you have never known anyone on injectables who has had an abnormal liver enzyme test?

Originally Posted by Poobah

Smoking and drinking, is responsible for like a ridiculous percentage of health care costs in this country.

Yes, but the numbers of people who smoke and drink is greater than the numbers of steroid users. A fair comparison would be the lifetime cost of healthcare directly associated with smoking on the average smoker to the same for a steroid user.

[MaggioMuscle]

Can anyone say, "I am a better man since I started using"? If so, how are you better? When thinking about this, consider the qualities that you feel make a man a good man.