Why muslims do what they do

[Aspirin]

Many in the west wonder just what are the basic beliefs of Islam and what is an appropriate response? While the Islamic religion has moved to the forefront of American consciousness, many are still confused. For example, does Islam promote violence, or is it a peaceful religion? Is Bin Laden a typical Muslim or merely a radical extremist gone wrong?

These are all answerable. Also, a legitimate history of Islam is in order. But since I am greatly hindered by the amount of information I can communicate in these threads (and rightly so as it is a bodybuilding forum no?), I will simply give what I believe is a Christian response to Muslims. Note that this is person to person. Obviously the USA has a right to defend and protect its citizens from threats abroad and domestic.

“There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the prophet (or messenger) of Allah” states the great Shahada, or “confession,” which faithful Muslims the world over declare daily. This declaration of faith effectively distinguishes Muslims from every other world religion, including Christianity and Judaism.

More than 1,800,000,000 people worldwide claim Allah as their God and Mohammad as their prophet and their numbers are rapidly growing. Millions of people embrace the Islamic faith. Entire countries are ruled and dominated by Islamic teachings, practices, and laws (some to the exclusion of all others). Much of the Western world is dependent for a major portion of its petroleum needs. Out of the more than one billion Muslims worldwide, by far the greatest numbers are the members of the Sunnite school. They accept the first four caliphs in direct succession from Muhammad and no others. Ninety percent of the Muslims in the Middle East and most parts of the Muslim world are Sunnis. The second largest school of Islam is the Shi’ite school. There are other minority schools within Islam.

The three key topics of discussion between a Christian and a Muslim should be the nature of God, the identity and deity of Jesus Christ, and salvation by grace alone apart from works. Christians can share with Muslims that the Christian God transcends man’s finitude and sinfulness because He cares about people individually, and He loves individuals. Divine love is a concept often missing from Islam, and yet it is essential to human peace and happiness with God. A powerful witness of Scripture to God’s love is John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

When told about Jesus, many Muslims will refuse to listen, claiming that our Scriptures are distorted and untrustworthy. The Christian can refer the interested Muslim to the many fine volumes available showing the inerrancy and inspiration of the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. This can provide a foundation for the Christian to present the New Testament teaching that Jesus Christ is truly God and is the only way to salvation.

A second approach would be to show how the Muslim view of a God who can change the scriptures of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam prevents any system of morality and ethics from ever existing. Such a God is self-contradictory and prevents us from ever knowing anything for certain, especially our salvation. The Christian can also share how the Qur’an holds to a high view of Scripture (Sun 447; 4:54), and that believers should check the Qur’an against the Bible (Sun 5:44-49; 10:95). The Muslim may charge that Jews and Christians have mistranslated the Bible, but the Qur’an says that they only misinterpret and disbelieve it (Sum 3:70-71). According to the Qur’an, only Jews have mistranslated Scripture (Sun 2:75-79; 4:46). Textually, all variations of the Qur’an were destroyed by Caliph Uthman (ruled 646-656), and his version is the only version in existence. The Old Testament has several extant versions that were around many years before Muhammad was even born. The New Testament has at least 9,000 manuscript copies existing before Mohammad, as well as over 36,000 quotations in the writings of the early church Fathers. The Qur’an cites its elegance as evidence for its inspiration (Sura 17:88), but many eloquent books have been written throughout history from the Iliad and the Odyssey to Paradise Lost and Mob Dick. Eloquence does not make them divine revelations. Obviously eloquence, even if true (and it is debatable that the Qur’an is stylistically elegant), is totally irrelevant. The evidence clearly shows that the Bible we have is very close to the original and that it has not been tampered with. Moreover, in the Qur’an as well as many places where there are multiple discrepancies and it contradicts scripture.

Sura 11:42-43 contradicts Genesis 6-7 by saying that Noah had a son who died in the flood and Sura 3:41 contradicts Luke when it says that Zechariah was speechless for three days (Luke 1:18-20). Sura 61:6 claims that Muhammad fulfills prophecy in the Torah and in the Gospels.

The Qur'an claims to fulfill prophecies in Deuteronomy 18:15-18 and John 14:16 Deuteronomy 18:15-18 is a portion of a speech given by Moses to the beginning at Deuteronomy 5:1, in which Moses prophesied that God would raise up a prophet like him from their midst. The meaning of this prophecy is partially explained in verse 3410: "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to fad' (italics added). Yet the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel, not directly by God, and Mohammad never claimed to be a descendant of Israel, but of Ishmael. If the Qur'an is to fulfill the Torah and the Gospels as it claims, the Muslim should read Acts 3:22-23, in which Peter speaks of Jesus as the prophet spoken of by
Moses.

John 14:16 reports that Jesus said that the Father will give the Helper to His disciples and that He would abide with them forever. Verse 17 adds that He would dwell with them and be in them. The Greek word for "Helper," or more properly "Advocate," paracletos, is claimed by Muslim apologists to be periclutos, "renowned." Somehow this word, which is not found anywhere in the New Testament, is understood by Muslims to mean "praised one," since the Sura claims that Jesus prophesied that he was sending the "good tidings of the Messenger who comes after me, whose name shall be Ahmad ['Praised One']." To add to their claim, Muslim apologists argue that the verse has been tampered with by Christians (contradicting Sura 2:73-79). But there is not a single manuscript copy that has periclutos, nor is there any contextual sense where Muhammad could somehow be fitted into the verse. Muhammad, being human, could not abide with Christ's disciples forever, dwell with them over five hundred years before he was born, nor live in them. If he could, he would be a much greater prophet than claimed! On the other hand, there is ample evidence to suggest that Sura 61:6 was interpolated after Muhammad's death. W. Montgomery Watt cogently shows, "It is impossible to prove that any Muslim child was called Mohammad the Prophet before about the year 125." At any rate, John 14:26 specifically identifies the paracletos with the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes the Muslim will argue that the rapid spread of Islam shows the truth of the religion (Sun 41:53), but several empires have spread faster than Islam (examples being such empires as those under Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan). One may counter that the rapid spread of communism was evidence of its truthfulness. Their argument is simply an appeal to irrelevancy. It is important to share the good news that salvation and peace with God do not depend on one's own insufficient efforts, but on the grace of God displayed through the atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. No one can work his way to heaven (or Muslim paradise). The Muslim will agree that Allah could justly choose to bar all men from paradise, since no man is perfect as Allah is perfect. However, biblical salvation does not depend on man's imperfections. Biblical salvation depends on the work and love of God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). This is not to say one should go on doing wrong after salvation. Read Jerry Bridges book “The Grace of Discipline” for further information on this matter.

Finally, the Christian should love the Muslim. Muslims have a definite zeal for God. They desire to follow God and express their worship of God through their lives. The Christian should respect the Muslims' sincere intentions and share with them the life-changing Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Christian should also share the fact that he believes God is great. When a Christian can demonstrate the power of the Word of God through the Holy Spirit and use his own life as an example of the joy and peace possible to those who love Jesus Christ, he becomes an effective example to the Muslim of the opportunity to know and worship the true God rather than Muhammad's distorted concepts about God.

[Awais_uk]

Damn u sure know your stuff asprin, did you study religious ed by any chance?

[ams33]

Originally Posted by krenalor

Our troops will also serve prison terms and are subject to the death penalty if the charges are found to be true. The suicide bombers families get money and the suicide bomber is lied to and told he will go to heaven. They are stupid if they believe that last part, hell is filled with terrorists.
I can't even muster any hate for al-qaeda, they are just doomed souls, I pity them instead. Hating anyone is wrong, feel sorry for their eventual fate.

from where the suicide bomber families are getting money ?

muslim gov?...all those gov are cooperating with the US to capture those terrorists ..

muslim people?.....no one is giving money to them ...actually no one speak and say he is from alqaeda here ,bec he will be sent to jail immediatly

bin laden?...yes ...and i assume if u stop his funding it will cease those attacks and saves the US a couple of millions (i dont think normal people can stop his funding , if yes tell me how?)

[krenalor]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51252,00.html

The Saudi pay them, also if you search "families of palestinian suicide bombers paid" you will find good ole Saddam Hussien used to pay them $25k too.

Now we all can be pissed about:

Sunni's attack on the Golden Mosque in Samarra, one of Shi'ite Islam's holiest sites

I hope it can be repaired as quickly as possible.

[BUFFLURP]

Originally Posted by Awais_uk

Damn u sure know your stuff asprin, did you study religious ed by any chance?

It's obvious he copied it from a Christian site. It's too formal and solid to sit down and wing it on a chat board.

From my perspective, I beleive that the Muslims do desire to worship God faithfully, just like any other religion. And like said, I also beleive that the Muslims have it distorted to an extent. I beleive most christians have it distorted to some extent. The prophet that Moses prophecied of was obviously Jesus Christ, and not Mohammad. Yes, I do beleive that there can be prophets still. Obviously the muslims do, but wouldnt Mohammad have a successor? I know some aout the history of the division of the shi'ite and the Sunni, which was an argument to who was the succesor to Mohammad. The successor would be reveled by revelation from God, wouldn't he? As far as the Old Testament goes, there was always a succesor as prophet ie. Abraham-Isaac. Anyways.

[Awais_uk]

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

It's obvious he copied it from a Christian site. It's too formal and solid to sit down and wing it on a chat board.

From my perspective, I beleive that the Muslims do desire to worship God faithfully, just like any other religion. And like said, I also beleive that the Muslims have it distorted to an extent. I beleive most christians have it distorted to some extent. The prophet that Moses prophecied of was obviously Jesus Christ, and not Mohammad. Yes, I do beleive that there can be prophets still. Obviously the muslims do, but wouldnt Mohammad have a successor? I know some aout the history of the division of the shi'ite and the Sunni, which was an argument to who was the succesor to Mohammad. The successor would be reveled by revelation from God, wouldn't he? As far as the Old Testament goes, there was always a succesor as prophet ie. Abraham-Isaac. Anyways.

Its not muslims that distort their own beliefs, if anything its down to cultural beliefs, but again its not just islam that this happens with, its any other religion too.

If you look at muslim converts who come from a western background with no easter heritage whatsoever, their views are far less "radical" then those of eastern origin.

[Aspirin]

Hi fellas,

Yes I have studied a whole lot of things over the years and continue to do so. The answer to a muslim was written by a good friend of mine who is a scholar in religious studies. Since my belief system mirrors his on this issue, he allowed me to post it. Hope it helped. A good book that really digs into the issue further is the updated "Answering Islam" by Norman Geisler. Check it out if you are interested in this topic further from a Christian perspective. Peace.

[BUFFLURP]

Originally Posted by Awais_uk

Its not muslims that distort their own beliefs, if anything its down to cultural beliefs, but again its not just islam that this happens with, its any other religion too.

If you look at muslim converts who come from a western background with no easter heritage whatsoever, their views are far less "radical" then those of eastern origin.

Thats not what I am saying. I am saying Islam is a distortion of the true God (Jehovah) and his precepts of the Old Testament.

[Awais_uk]

Originally Posted by BUFFLURP

Thats not what I am saying. I am saying Islam is a distortion of the true God (Jehovah) and his precepts of the Old Testament.

each religion has its own point of view, and im sure each religion including yours teaches to respect views of others.

[BUFFLURP]

Originally Posted by Awais_uk

each religion has its own point of view, and im sure each religion including yours teaches to respect views of others.

Sure. I am not disrespecting anything. Just giving my insights.

[Aspirin]

Originally Posted by Awais_uk

each religion has its own point of view, and im sure each religion including yours teaches to respect views of others.

It is true that "each religion has its own point of view" but it is not true that "each religion... teaches to respect views of others."

Also understand that all religions are not the same and have structural contradictions so diametrically opposed to each other that they can never resolved or unified into a systematic theology of all (though many have tried).

Unfortunately, some people take the notion of equal toleration of religious expression to mean that all religions are equally true, thus equally valid paths to God. In effect, this type of thinking projects democracy upon applied ultimate truth. This seemingly "politically correct" approach to religion, though popular in some places, represents deeply convoluted thinking. The acceptance of social pluralism (tolerance of diverse religious expression) does not logically imply the truth of metaphysical pluralism (that all religious truth claims are equally valid and simultaneously true).

I can explain why but it is a deep discussion that looks at most world religions and their assertions. Done properly and completely, expect about a thousand screens of information. We're not going there. Of course an ongoing discussion on the subject is far easier and natural but takes a lot longer to properly address the subject matter. Peace.

[ams33]

hey aspirin , check this website :http://www.islam-guide.com/.....it s nice and very brief

[Aspirin]

The site is sort of a mirror opposite of what you might find for a YEC evangelical site only this site promotes Islam instead. Unlike many sites on all sides of the discussion, this is well organized; however, it is evangelistic in nature and not meant to be scholarly.

Bottom line: A well organized site doesn't mean the content nor assertions are true. And that is the whole point of these discussions, what information is true, what is false, and is it being used correctly and accurately in context (historical, philosophical, theological, etc...) and what is merely propoganda and what real conclusions can be drawn. These types of discussions are not simple. This is a place to start if a westerner was interested in seeing some very basic assertions by western Muslims regarding the religion of Islam. Nothing more.

[ams33]

Originally Posted by Aspirin

The site is sort of a mirror opposite of what you might find for a YEC evangelical site only this site promotes Islam instead. Unlike many sites on all sides of the discussion, this is well organized; however, it is evangelistic in nature and not meant to be scholarly.

Bottom line: A well organized site doesn't mean the content nor assertions are true. And that is the whole point of these discussions, what information is true, what is false, and is it being used correctly and accurately in context (historical, philosophical, theological, etc...) and what is merely propoganda and what real conclusions can be drawn. These types of discussions are not simple. This is a place to start if a westerner was interested in seeing some very basic assertions by western Muslims regarding the religion of Islam. Nothing more.

i dont think u invested enough time to read it carefully and fully ...well yes i can agree with u that early stories are present both in islam and other religions , 2 things u can notice:
1-some stories are the same
2-there exist diffrence in others

conclusion : muhammad didnt rely on old stories from the bible or torah ,yet there exist similarities ...ie : the source of all of these is the same , but something wrong happened in our interpretation that lead to such diffrences ......which is more accurate , ok let s go to the next section

science , no one can deny that backing up with scientifical proof is a very strong argument

some quick facts about quran

1-revealed 1400years ago
2-mohammad was analphebetic and the community he lived in was mostly analphebetic .
3-the quran was revealed to mohammad ,the several revelations which were spread along 23 years , were gathered in one book directly after the death of mohammad .
4-since 1400 years we have the same copy of the quran , ie , the quran we have now is the same as the one 1400years ago : proof : same text in all copies present around the world and same when compared to previous copies which date back 1000years ago
5-a quick fact about the style of the quran : the style of quran has nothing similar to it in the arabic language , so suppose some one wanna modify or add a verse ,it s practically impossible because the style will differ greatly ,several attempts by non-muslims has been done but failed and no one was able to come up with a style ,so elegant and accurate like the style of the quran , am not using this argument to convince u since u dont know arabic am just referring to the impossibility of altering the quranic text since that will be directly discovered

the result :
a lot of verses talked about natural phenomenas , and telled details about it and gave scientifique info that were not discovered but until recently in this late century using sophisticated equipments , a lot of scientists were surprised and admitted that and a lot more embraced islam , bec such thing is a clear evidance that quran is a divine revelation, one example is prof.keith moore.....one of the most famous anatomists and embryologists in the world ....any medical student in the USA and canada should have heard of him bec his textbook is taught in most med schools , he saw the quranic description of embryo development and was surprised how accurate it was and matched recent findings in that field ,although revealed 1400 years ago where there exist no endoscopes nor any high tech equipment ............more examples can be found examples of areas covered : embryology , geology , astronomy .........

hope u enjoyed while u was reading ............
.................................best wishes ....................... ......

[Chauncey11]

Originally Posted by dd3060

all of them had information about future attacks. getting that info is neccessary at all costs. if a bunch of thugs kidnapped your wife and kids (or mother and father) and one of them got caught. you wouldnt want to kick the $hit out of him until he told you where they were? i know i would.

All Of the prisoners had information about future attacks????
Not quite. We released some of the prisoners.
Tortureous Interrogation does'nt work anyway. The prisoners will say just about anything at that point and most of the times the information(or misinformation) is useless.
I can't believe that people actually think torturing prisoners WHO HAVE NOT BEEN PROVEN GUILTY,have not stood trial is the right thing to do.
This prisoner abuse scandal should be viewed as one of the low points in U.S. history, not something that should be encouraged.

[cashmoneyarmy7]

society has become very corrupt. no one has any right to assault or discriminate anyone. all of the discriminatory comments i hear everyday make me sick. i was born in iran but i was raised in san diego. evryone, including teachers, used to ask me where i was from every school year when i met new people and had new teachers. after 911, some people started to behave and act strangely towards me and be uncomfortable around me. i didnt want to be seen that way so i lied and said i was aisian everytime someone asked me where i was from. since then i have grown to understand that i shouldnt be ashamed of where i come from. its no ones buisness to ask me where im from. we are all human and we live on earth. the only things that supposedly seperate us, is different religions. but still, soem religions have their base belive of god or gods. i wish i could adress all the people out there that islamic people/ muslims are not bad people. the governmetnt over there is screwed up and its all a fight for power and oil. countries such as iraq and iran never did anything bad. there were political "fanatics" all around that thought of superiority and power. this is my point of view on this matter. my father and i have had many discussions on it and most of these veiws were given to him from me. sorry is any of the ideas arenot clear, but this topic makes me so mad!