Abortion:

[TrainedMind]

I know you guys will love me for posting this. I know it's a sensitive subject. I hope that no immaturity will arise from this.

I recently uncovered that my little brother aborted his child with his girlfriend, Needless to say I had to kick his butt to oblivion. I feel that it is not his choice but rather it's his girlfriends. I was torn up when I heard that HE made the decision and not her. After all, it's her body right? What do you guys think?

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by TrainedMind

I know you guys will love me for posting this. I know it's a sensitive subject. I hope that no immaturity will arise from this.

I recently uncovered that my little brother aborted his child with his girlfriend, Needless to say I had to kick his butt to oblivion. I feel that it is not his choice but rather it's his girlfriends. I was torn up when I heard that HE made the decision and not her. After all, it's her body right? What do you guys think?

Wow, TrainedMind, you like the hot button topics eh? Religion, Politics, Abortion. But hey, all good subjects for discussion.

Well, being Catholic you know where I stand. There are exceptions of course (ie rape victims). But it is sad to see so many couples that cant have kids that would love to adopt but dont have the opportunity because of someone's selfishness. It's sad that those kids dont even have a chance.

[RRAdam]

Her body, but his seed too. he cant "make" her. it was ultimately her choice. Abortion is one of the major issues I struggle with. I am a libertarian, so I am pretty dead set on a lot of issues - but abortion has me tied.

[t_dot_porkchop]

im pro choice......more specifically, pro "her choice"

im catholic, but then again, i dont see eye to eye on most church issues.

[Primevci]

yea i dont have a vagina so i think its up to the ladys...its not her fault i didnt pull out

[elcaqui]

Pro Choice

[tryin2gain]

Originally Posted by TrainedMind

I recently uncovered that my little brother aborted his child with his girlfriend, Needless to say I had to kick his butt to oblivion. I feel that it is not his choice but rather it's his girlfriends. I was torn up when I heard that HE made the decision and not her. After all, it's her body right? What do you guys think?

While his input should be noted, he should not be the deciding factor. Rather than tell her what choice to make, he should have given his feelings on the matter and let her decide. So yes, i will agree with you, it should have been her choice.

Overall im pro choice. This is mainly because of rape victims, but there are also many other factors i would rather not get into. My mother and sister are both dead set on being pro choice, and so ive heard plenty of reasons why it should remain legal.

[Primevci]

Originally Posted by tryin2gain

While his input should be noted, he should not be the deciding factor. Rather than tell her what choice to make, he should have given his feelings on the matter and let her decide. So yes, i will agree with you, it should have been her choice.

Overall im pro choice. This is mainly because of rape victims, but there are also many other factors i would rather not get into. My mother and sister are both dead set on being pro choice, and so ive heard plenty of reasons why it should remain legal.

exactly

[RRAdam]

Yea, Im absolutely pro-choice in rape victims - its the other part im hard to choose on.... theres the choice to decide whether or not to abort, but then theres the fact that there is a fetus in there and its the parents stupid fault to engage in the actvity.... oh such a matter for me to think about.

[TrainedMind]

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

Wow, TrainedMind, you like the hot button topics eh? Religion, Politics, Abortion. But hey, all good subjects for discussion.
.

Yes. Indeed they are nice to discuss. I learn a lot from other people's inputs. Hot buttons? Yes, but then again it's good to exercise thoughts and provoke thoughts in a good way.

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

Well, being Catholic you know where I stand. There are exceptions of course (ie rape victims).

I don't know..I don't think that's right either. A life is a life..rape or not the child should live..there's always adoption agencies that would be more than happy to provide a home for him/her.

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

But it is sad to see so many couples that cant have kids that would love to adopt but dont have the opportunity because of someone's selfishness. It's sad that those kids dont even have a chance.

Agreed, too often there are way too many couples who would be more than happy to adopt babies..I am adopted myself; so I am thankful that I was allowed to live and experience life.

[TrainedMind]

Originally Posted by RRAdam

Her body, but his seed too. he cant "make" her. it was ultimately her choice. Abortion is one of the major issues I struggle with. I am a libertarian, so I am pretty dead set on a lot of issues - but abortion has me tied.

Agreed. That is why I was shocked. I will not tolerate such decision making process..I truly believe that men have no bearing on the issue AT ALL. Although I hate the thought of the kid dying(if chosen by the mother to do so), still my brother had no right to decide. either way. It's unfortunate; but its just the way it is. I just wish they talked to me beforehand, I would have been happy to be the father.

[TrainedMind]

Originally Posted by t_dot_porkchop

im pro choice......more specifically, pro "her choice"

im catholic, but then again, i dont see eye to eye on most church issues.

..I second that..we have no right as Men to say either way..not our body, not our choice

[TrainedMind]

Originally Posted by tryin2gain

While his input should be noted, he should not be the deciding factor. Rather than tell her what choice to make, he should have given his feelings on the matter and let her decide. So yes, i will agree with you, it should have been her choice.

Thanks..the problem nowadays is that kids are so eager to jump into bed and "DO IT" without really thinking about the "what ifs". and then when the what if, becomes reality they get so innundated that they start to make foolish choices and not look for resources that would benefit them in a long run.

[Sam_2005]

I think the male should have a big say in it, after all it is his child, however it is ultimately the choice of the pregnant woman.
However I disagree with your comments on rape victims, should any woman have the traumatic misfortune of being raped, I feel it is their right to abort the zygote or fetus if they want to. They may not want to have the child, go through the stress of giving birth, considering it wouldn't be their choice to conceive anyway. I just can't see how you can say in one instance the woman should have the right to decide abortion, but the other if the circumstances were that the woman was raped.

[sweetthing]

Well I really said enough about it in another thread, I'm totally against abortions.
But if someone were to have one it should be her decision, its her body, but would be nice that she discusses it with the baby's father also.

[TRAZ]

Abortion is not to be used as birth control, but I believe women should have the choice. It is a very big decision and if you make the mistake once and decide to have one you need to learn from it and never have to do it again. I know people that have had multiple abortions and that is pretty terrible to me. Think before you act. This is serious stuff, but it should still be legal.

[wnxmaximus]

Well, I am kind of torn as well. Because I could understand if a woman was raped how hard it would be to think that this child is the result of such a violent and cruel crime. Its just heart-breaking to think that men would do that women in the first place.

What upsets me is when people having willing sex have the attitude that it isnt their fault that the"condom broke" or that the guy thought he "pulled out" in time. Its unfortunate for them, but it is definitely their fault. I mean, sure the condom was supposed to protect them, but it isnt perfect. I know that not alot of people in here agree that you should abstain from sex until marriage, but happen to agree with it. What better way is their to protect from an unwanted pregnancy. My reasons are because of my faith, but beyond that, I think it makes being with your wife more important if she is the only one you have ever been with.

Back on topic though, i don think it is right for people that were having sex willingly, who knew the possible outcome, to be able to abort a child. IT seems that our culure is turning into one of quick fixes. If you are fat, take a diet pill. If you want bigger breasts, have implants. If you want bigger muscles, take roids (some people use them responsibly, and are doing so because they have "peaked" naturally. I completely understand, i am referring to the punks who take them after a year of training because they are impatient.) Our society is all about quick fixes, so why not be able to abort your child if you accidentally get pregnant, it makes sense right. Its just assuring people that whatever they do to screw up, they will have a way to fix it.

I see that fetus as a life, some dont, I guess that is all opinion. but because I see it as a life, I see abortion as murder, as a life that could of been lived but was cut short by someone who was selfish. Who wasnt willing to sacrifice part of their life to let another life live. And as far as rape victims, like i said i am still so torn. The life is still a life, just because it was so violently created, its not the fault of the child. At the same time, I can see how that would be so hard emotionally to handle for a female. if only we could prevent rape huh, i guess in a perfect world.

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

Well, I am kind of torn as well. Because I could understand if a woman was raped how hard it would be to think that this child is the result of such a violent and cruel crime. Its just heart-breaking to think that men would do that women in the first place.

What upsets me is when people having willing sex have the attitude that it isnt their fault that the"condom broke" or that the guy thought he "pulled out" in time. Its unfortunate for them, but it is definitely their fault. I mean, sure the condom was supposed to protect them, but it isnt perfect. I know that not alot of people in here agree that you should abstain from sex until marriage, but happen to agree with it. What better way is their to protect from an unwanted pregnancy. My reasons are because of my faith, but beyond that, I think it makes being with your wife more important if she is the only one you have ever been with.

Back on topic though, i don think it is right for people that were having sex willingly, who knew the possible outcome, to be able to abort a child. IT seems that our culure is turning into one of quick fixes. If you are fat, take a diet pill. If you want bigger breasts, have implants. If you want bigger muscles, take roids (some people use them responsibly, and are doing so because they have "peaked" naturally. I completely understand, i am referring to the punks who take them after a year of training because they are impatient.) Our society is all about quick fixes, so why not be able to abort your child if you accidentally get pregnant, it makes sense right. Its just assuring people that whatever they do to screw up, they will have a way to fix it.

I see that fetus as a life, some dont, I guess that is all opinion. but because I see it as a life, I see abortion as murder, as a life that could of been lived but was cut short by someone who was selfish. Who wasnt willing to sacrifice part of their life to let another life live. And as far as rape victims, like i said i am still so torn. The life is still a life, just because it was so violently created, its not the fault of the child. At the same time, I can see how that would be so hard emotionally to handle for a female. if only we could prevent rape huh, i guess in a perfect world.

Wow, very good post. You are absolutely right on the obsession with quick fixes. Rape is a difficult one. But in most (all?) other instances, the poor baby should have the opportunity to live a fulfilling life.

[BUFFLURP]

Originally Posted by TrainedMind

I know you guys will love me for posting this. I know it's a sensitive subject. I hope that no immaturity will arise from this.

I recently uncovered that my little brother aborted his child with his girlfriend, Needless to say I had to kick his butt to oblivion. I feel that it is not his choice but rather it's his girlfriends. I was torn up when I heard that HE made the decision and not her. After all, it's her body right? What do you guys think?

Abortion is wrong if you conceived the child through consentiual intercourse. period.

The only exceptions i give to abortion is that if the baby seriously threatens the life of the mother, or if a young girl has been raped. Other than that, abortion shoud be considered manslaughter and shold recieve penalties of such a crime. I dont know when "lawfully" a baby is considered alive, but from my point of view, a baby recieves it's life and spirit inside the womb of the mother, and is then "alive".

[TrainedMind]

Originally Posted by Sam_2005

I think the male should have a big say in it, after all it is his child, however it is ultimately the choice of the pregnant woman.

Sorry Sam, I disagree with you..COMPLETELY, for reason being, you're not a woman..You may have labor sympathies, but not the actual suffering..Thank you for your thoughts though.

Originally Posted by Sam_2005

However I disagree with your comments on rape victims, should any woman have the traumatic misfortune of being raped, I feel it is their right to abort the zygote or fetus if they want to.

NO argument there! but life should not be a choice matter: I strongly uphold that life is more important than any ill feelings, regardless of circumstance. 2 wrongs do not make a right, sad to say, but true, yes?

Originally Posted by Sam_2005

They may not want to have the child, go through the stress of giving birth, considering it wouldn't be their choice to conceive anyway. I just can't see how you can say in one instance the woman should have the right to decide abortion, but the other if the circumstances were that the woman was raped.

I'm a bit confused with your argument here, Sam. I cannot seem to decipher your code. As I stated prior; Yes, women have the choice to abort, but it should not be their only choice, have you ever heard of adoption?. Rape: very traumatic!! on the other hand MURDER: less traumatic? Sorry I dont see your logic there.