War in Iraq - BodybuildingForYou

TrainedMind · #1 (**permalink**) 02-10-2006, 08:39 PM

What do you think about the war in Iraq?
Personally. I hate it. Its a bunch of nonesense rolled into more nonesense. It's a shame that we have to go to war based on lies and deception. But don't get me wrong. I am all for my country's well being but I think this war is not at all handled accordingly.

Currently my brother is in there fighting for what he believes is his duty. I got out because of all the bull*hit. I did my 4 years and served my country well. Let me know of your thoughts on this matter. Thanks

Hawkwind · #2 (**permalink**) 02-10-2006, 08:52 PM

My cousin served in Iraq, my son and my 'son of my heart' are over there now. My oldest is doing his tech training and is getting impatient to get through it so he can do his part.

I know the war is not popular with a lot of people...but when you take the time to listen to what many coming back home have to say after they have spent time with the Iraqi people ... we are needed over there to help them build a stable infrastructure and government. They are not ready to stand on their own yet.

I am moving this to the serious section. Keep it civil, this is a volatile subject.

naturally323 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-10-2006, 11:24 PM

i think that the underlying reason for this whole war had nothing to do with terrorist i can tell you that right now..

TrainedMind · #4 (**permalink**) 02-11-2006, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturally323

i think that the underlying reason for this whole war had nothing to do with terrorist i can tell you that right now..

Yes. I agree. But the soldiers have no choice in the matter. Our commander in chief is far too busy seeking his own evil intent and masking it with so called "for the good" Iraq.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkWind

we are needed over there to help them build a stable infrastructure and government. They are not ready to stand on their own yet.

I agree. They are as unstable as can be. But when did that become our problem ? Just because we are a powerful nation: did that give us the right to become the world police? We are nosing in their business with nothing but the "conform to our likings" and we will help you attitude. The Iraqi people do want us there but we have been there long enough and spent way too much money when our own problems here at home cannot even be solved i.e Homelessness, poverty, child abuse, murder and so forth.

mywetnightmares · #5 (**permalink**) 02-11-2006, 02:01 PM

The reason we've become world police is because the UN is a bunch of old men who have lost their balls and are afraid to do anything. We've become world police because we have the power, AND because with the exception of a few countries like Britain and Israel we're the only country with any testicles. Even now the left is doing it's best to emasculate the country and say that unless it directly affects us it's not our problem. Yeah, the next time somebody's beating your ass into submission in a dark alley think about how you'd feel if everyone walked by and said, "It's ok, it's not my problem."

ams33 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-11-2006, 02:19 PM

one thing that s confusing me till now : why US politician claim they are in iraq for iraqi people , i personally dont think that US soldiers deserve to be killed for such a reason , why iraq?...there are 10 s of countries that need help and have dictators.....terorists ?..well , bush didnt mention that at all when he invaded iraq bec he said it s weapons of mass destruction .....why iraq??...............maybe oil is a reason

our sympathy with the soldiers that are supporting the delusions of a president.....wish the reason was worth dyin for

TrainedMind · #7 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywetnightmares

Yeah, the next time somebody's beating your ass into submission in a dark alley think about how you'd feel if everyone walked by and said, "It's ok, it's not my problem."

A valid point. But do you think that the war was justifiably waged/handled? I mean the reason of the invasion is still unclear. First it was the weapons of mass destruction and then shifts to " well, we thought there was some cause they bought uranium from somebody" and then ultimately it came down to faulty intelligence. Tell that crappy reasoning to the grieving mothers and fathers who's kids died because our government relied on faulty sources. Whose sole intentions were to derail our pursuit of justice for the 9/11 attacks.

fumbrunner · #8 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywetnightmares

The reason we've become world police is because the UN is a bunch of old men who have lost their balls and are afraid to do anything. We've become world police because we have the power, AND because with the exception of a few countries like Britain and Israel we're the only country with any testicles. Even now the left is doing it's best to emasculate the country and say that unless it directly affects us it's not our problem. Yeah, the next time somebody's beating your ass into submission in a dark alley think about how you'd feel if everyone walked by and said, "It's ok, it's not my problem."

Well, you better hope that China doesnt all of a sudden get the "Balls" to police the world. Its all great when your country has the might to impose their beliefs all over the world. Its totally different if you are the one being oppressed.

martydup · #9 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 11:22 AM

They didn't hesitate to use military force for Iraq.Iran is far more dangerous but insist they want to solve this the diplomatic way.Go figure.

wnxmaximus · #10 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 06:15 PM

I hate how everyone thinks they have this whole Iraq war thing figured out so perfectly. They know the motives for going, they have found the deception, the lies. People really think that with their limited knowledge and limited resources that they seriously have everything figured out.

Let me spell it out. No civilian will ever have access to all the information and details that the government has. There are so many reasons and variables that exist that none of us will ever know. So its quite asinine to presume you have all of Bush's reasons figured out, and understand fully what our government is trying to do and their reasons for going.

TrainedMind · #11 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

I hate how everyone thinks they have this whole Iraq war thing figured out so perfectly. They know the motives for going, they have found the deception, the lies. People really think that with their limited knowledge and limited resources that they seriously have everything figured out.

I don't claim to know everything in regards to that subject Max, and that is why I and the others I'm sure; are prying. We/Us as citizens need to know. It's not a crime to be involved in the happenings of our country. To know is to care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

Let me spell it out. No civilian will ever have access to all the information and details that the government has. There are so many reasons and variables that exist that none of us will ever know. So its quite asinine to presume you have all of Bush's reasons figured out, and understand fully what our government is trying to do and their reasons for going.

And that's the scary thing, Max. With such great power comes greater responsibility. Think about what you are saying. The government keeps us in the dark, for what reason? so we wont find out, right? I pay taxes and that entitles me to be in the know. It's not government funds that's being dispursed, it's our money. To let them spend it anyway they please is "asinine". We sweat, they profit? Is that really how you want your government to run your country? I think not.

wnxmaximus · #12 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 08:47 PM

Its not that its my ideal government but I am not sure the public could handle all of the info if we knew it. I dont trust that our country, if given all the knowledge our government has, I believe there would be alot of discourse and could lead to chaos. Even with not trusting our government I think i trust the public even less.

TrainedMind · #13 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

Its not that its my ideal government but I am not sure the public could handle all of the info if we knew it. I dont trust that our country, if given all the knowledge our government has, I believe there would be alot of discourse and could lead to chaos. Even with not trusting our government I think i trust the public even less.

Point taken. But I am not trying to say not to trust our government (I'm inclusive since I have no clue where you're from) all I am saying is that we should keep our appointed leaders in check. I hate to bash Bush all the time but you know as well as I do that he is just a puppet: controlled by old farts that calls themselves reprentative of the people. But does nothing to voice the public's concerns. Take this war for instance; I am not saying don't serve our country. It's our duty to do so, Otherwise I wouldn't be able to say what I am saying right now. But how it's been handled is obscene. We lie to the whole world that our actions are justified because we say so. No evidence put forth to back up our claims. It just doesn't sit well with me.

wnxmaximus · #14 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 11:17 PM

Point taken. I am going to say that I voted for Bush, and I usually agree with the conservative point of view. I will also say that over the last few years I have grown to realize that neither party actually represents my idea of a government. I believe that democratic or republican, its a big joke. Its lie after lie, and coverup after coverup. Its men controlling the presidents who are controlled by other factors.

To sum it up, I dont really trust our government, whether its Bush or Kerry, we wont ever know the truth, or be told the truth. I used to believe it was a certain party that was more truthful than the other, but what it comes down to in my mind now is this...the government is all knowing all seeing and all powerful. The truth is I want changes but probably wont get them.

So I am not really that upset with how Bush handles things. I am more or less upset with the general US government. Its not Bush's fault, its the fault of many different people and factors that lead to the ultimate decision that is made. This is just the way it is, I dont see it changing anytime soon.

EDIT: When I say I dont trust them I dont mean that paranoid kind of not trusting. I mean, I realize that I will never know what they know. I do believe that alot of what I am told is truth, and I do know a suffecient amount of whats goin on. I am not opposed to branch's of our government or military or anything, they are necessary. So I dont want you to think that I am completely against the government or anything...its just, ove the years I realize how little I know and how little they tell us...but in all honsety it might be for the best.

TrainedMind · #15 (**permalink**) 02-12-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

Point taken. I am going to say that I voted for Bush,

and millions of others like you. I voted for myself but I didn't make it in the polls for obvious reasons

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

and I usually agree with the conservative point of view. I will also say that over the last few years I have grown to realize that neither party actually represents my idea of a government. I believe that democratic or republican, its a big joke. Its lie after lie, and coverup after coverup. Its men controlling the presidents who are controlled by other factors.

You pretty much summed up my frustrations right there

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

To sum it up, I dont really trust our government, whether its Bush or Kerry, we wont ever know the truth, or be told the truth. I used to believe it was a certain party that was more truthful than the other, but what it comes down to in my mind now is this...the government is all knowing all seeing and all powerful. The truth is I want changes but probably wont get them.

Not unless we do something about it. Change doesn't happen by itself. The power of the people is far greater than any governments out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

So I am not really that upset with how Bush handles things.

Neither am I. I just wish that the war didn't happen like it did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

I am more or less upset with the general US government. Its not Bush's fault, its the fault of many different people and factors that lead to the ultimate decision that is made. This is just the way it is, I dont see it changing anytime soon.

perhaps you're right. But could you state your views on the war? how it has affected you and so forth?
I'm interested...

Taekwondo Guy · #16 (**permalink**) 02-13-2006, 12:53 AM

this thread is always one of those that gets heated and turned into a flame war quickly, the discussion here is good but please refrain from flaming the noobs who post ignorant tripe... i will delete those posts that fall foul of the TOS.

noobs + politics = flame war
trolls + politics = flame war
13-15yr olds + politics + what mom and dad said = flame war

Awais_uk · #17 (**permalink**) 02-13-2006, 04:07 AM

EDIT

Dumb post

wnxmaximus · #18 (**permalink**) 02-13-2006, 08:18 AM

Taekwondo, its pretty much just me and trainedmind....I think we are keeping this more civil than I have seen any other political debate on a forum, I am actually proud of us...lol, i have been involved in a few that were, lets say, embaressing.

As far as my view on the war goes. I am sure that oil has to play a pretty big factor in our reasoning for the war. I dont agree thats the whole thing though. Idont think its fair really to say that the only reason we are there is for oil. I happen to believe that our government does have some humanity and might actually want to help the Iraq people. Now whether or not we are helping them is a whole other topic. I believe that we are helping some, and hurting some, its hard to say which we are doing more.

I honestly dont know how I feel about the war then. I do agree with it in some ways, and disagree with it in others. I think that there are motives other than what we are told (such as oil) but I do believe there some truths to the reasons they told us.

As far as the WMD's go and how everyone thinks that was just some bogus reason. I dont doubt that it was a real reason, its very possible that factors we are not aware of played a part in us not finding them and such. I think that Sadaam should of been brought down and I am glad that Iraq is free from him now. I do think that good has come out of the war and I do support it.

Like I said before, there are so many things that we dont know about the war and such. I cannot pretend to know other reason and factors that influenced the war on Iraq, I just have to trust that our reasons arent all based on deceit, greed, and a power hungry government.

Taekwondo Guy · #19 (**permalink**) 02-13-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnxmaximus

Taekwondo, its pretty much just me and trainedmind....I think we are keeping this more civil than I have seen any other political debate on a forum, I am actually proud of us...lol, i have been involved in a few that were, lets say, embaressing.

i know, i'm glad that debates are less heated and more mature, my post wasn't aimed at anyone on this thread, i just wanted to put in a reminder to noobs who felt the urge to hit the reply button.