Muslims/sympathisers on terrorists

[bar scrapper]

Has anyone ever noticed that a lot of people say things like "the terrorists are bad but you have to realize that the west is responsible for them being in such bad position" or "Im glad Saddam is gone BUT removing him from power was illegal in the first place"

Im saying this because of wot some idiot in one of my classes at school was saying. I've noticed that their are a lot of people who secretly are rooting for terrorists, in Iraq, Afganistan, Israel, etc. They cannot denounce anything, or call anything definitivly bad without adding a "BUT" to the statement.

Here is an article from the Calgary Sun that really put into words what i was thinking about this issue:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Column...07/922790.html

[tryinhard]

Originally Posted by bar scrapper

Has anyone ever noticed that a lot of people say things like "the terrorists are bad but you have to realize that the west is responsible for them being in such bad position" or "Im glad Saddam is gone BUT removing him from power was illegal in the first place"

Im saying this because of wot some idiot in one of my classes at school was saying. I've noticed that their are a lot of people who secretly are rooting for terrorists, in Iraq, Afganistan, Israel, etc. They cannot denounce anything, or call anything definitivly bad without adding a "BUT" to the statement.

Here is an article from the Calgary Sun that really put into words what i was thinking about this issue:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Column...07/922790.html

Yup.. That is because they think that America is the problem, the evil empire, yet they don't want to go out and say it.. It is the same thing with no approving of the troops actions in war, but still saying that they support the troops.
" war is evil, we are killing so many iraqi children every day, but i support the troops." Ya right

[fumbrunner]

it's America's position in the middle east (ie.. supporting Israel) that creates hatred towards the States.

If they kept their noses out, or at the very least took an impartial stance, none of this **** would have happened.

[na_feu]

lol@ BS
i dont think anyone in Israel is rooting for the terrorists..

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

it's America's position in the middle east (ie.. supporting Israel) that creates hatred towards the States.

If they kept their noses out, or at the very least took an impartial stance, none of this sh*t would have happened.

If you're going to speculate that America is, in fact, the Great Satan...you might also want to include some info about the GOOD that America has done in the Middle East and the rest of the world. The people who attack us are vehemently opposed to democracy and the freedoms that Americans enjoy. The blame-America-first crowd should try living in one of these countries that we're supposedly hurting so bad. Tell me how awful American involvement is when they shoot your wife in the head for showing her ankles in public and send you a bill for the bullet.

[Just t]

How can you stay angry at em

i mean hes so cute, check his lovely long beard.

On a serious note. Terrorists are terrorists for a reason, and its not all one way but its mainly that they r Total Coccccckkkkk heads, and there jelous coz there so ****

[larryj1973]

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

it's America's position in the middle east (ie.. supporting Israel) that creates hatred towards the States.

If they kept their noses out, or at the very least took an impartial stance, none of this sh*t would have happened.

I disagree. The problem is that the vast majority of arabs want a "final solution" for the nation state of Israel.

Nothing less.

Israel has a right to exist and the United States is morally obligated to support another democracy so terribly menaced by ruthless, implacable foes.

[dinosaur]

The best understanding of this issue comes from reading the statements put out by the terrorists themselves. Or just by watching 30 minutes of Al Jazeera. They are opposed to Democracy because it gives people the right to certain freedoms that they do not believe people should have. They also hate America because(among other reasons) we do not have a national religion that acts as our system of government. I wonder what kind of religion they'd like to see rule our country. Islam maybe?

[bar scrapper]

One more question: what exactly does "I support the troops" mean? For instance, when someone says "Iraq is a mess, a disastour, against international law, for oil... etc" but "i support the troops" what do they mean by that? When i think about that, it really does sound foolish for an American to say that. If supporting something does not include standing up for its cause, then what does it mean? I recently saw Fahrenhiet 9/11 and was did not understand how the movie makes all the soldiers look like idiotic, racist, rednecks by showing footage of the most embarrasing quotes he could find, but then i saw Michael Moore on Letterman awhile ago, and he was ranting on about how he "supports the troops" but just doesn't like Bush.

[tryinhard]

good question, They try and use the argument that they don't agree with the policy of the president and they support the troops, but alot of them want to support the troops by bringing them home( you can't support something while wanting it stopped )... And as soon as something like wannabe torture ( panties on head ) happens the jump all over it trying to make our troops look like cold blooded baby killers.

I don't know how you can support something you believe that is morally wrong.. Big Fatty Liars.. the support the terrorists more than the troops.

[bar scrapper]

Thats what i figured... I bet Michael Moore thinks soldiers are a bunch of redneck, warmonger, Bush-supporters, but he doesn't have the guts to come out and say out, because then he wouldn't sell movie tickets

In my opinion that guy is a total a$$... I think that was probably a big loser all his life and now hates the fact that George Bush is the one calling the shots while he is a joke. I mean, think about it; M Moore has probably been made fun of all his life, and to him, George Bush is probably the popular, well liked, more athletic guy who all the girls liked that gave him a wedgie and through him into a locker in high school... Thats my impression of Michael Moore after seeing the movie, the perpetual loser who worked hard all his life only to wide up as a international embarrasment for the U.S., while George Bush, the fun loving, beer drinking Texan can slack off for 40 years, pull himself together, and finds himself President of the United States.

ha ha ha, can't say i feel sorry for the fat bastard either...

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

The best understanding of this issue comes from reading the statements put out by the terrorists themselves. Or just by watching 30 minutes of Al Jazeera. They are opposed to Democracy because it gives people the right to certain freedoms that they do not believe people should have. They also hate America because(among other reasons) we do not have a national religion that acts as our system of government. I wonder what kind of religion they'd like to see rule our country. Islam maybe?

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice and read the text of Bin
Laden's speeches.

By stating that Arabs are opposed to Democracy is painting all by the same brush. The recent election in the PA, or in another islamic country - Turkey, is proof that your statement is inaccurate.

It is US's support of Israel, who are occupying land that is not theirs, and who rely on over 3 Billion US dollars of miliary aid to supress palestinians, that riles Arabs. Have you ever taken a look at the US's abuse of the veto at the UN Security Council?
Have a look...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../usvetoes.html

Fortunately, it looks like George Bush is taking a more balanced approach and it seems, at least today, like there is some progress.

No, I'm not condoning violence or terrorism. But if you are going to find the root of hatred towards the US, please become informed of the issues and take a bit of a history lesson.

Simply stating that "they" hate "us" because we like democracy and they dont is an incredibly weak and unsubstantiated argument.

[tryinhard]

Originally Posted by fumbrunner

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice and read the text of Bin
Laden's speeches.

By stating that Arabs are opposed to Democracy is painting all by the same brush. The recent election in the PA, or in another islamic country - Turkey, is proof that your statement is inaccurate.

It is US's support of Israel, who are occupying land that is not theirs, and who rely on over 3 Billion US dollars of miliary aid to supress palestinians, that riles Arabs. Have you ever taken a look at the US's abuse of the veto at the UN Security Council?
Have a look...
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../usvetoes.html

Fortunately, it looks like George Bush is taking a more balanced approach and it seems, at least today, like there is some progress.

No, I'm not condoning violence or terrorism. But if you are going to find the root of hatred towards the US, please become informed of the issues and take a bit of a history lesson.

Simply stating that "they" hate "us" because we like democracy and they dont is an incredibly weak and unsubstantiated argument.

Ya because everyone knows the middle east was a Peacefull paradise before we started supporting israel..

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by tryinhard

Ya because everyone knows the middle east was a Peacefull paradise before we started supporting israel..

Brilliant response and great logic.

Let me try to give you a history lesson in terms you will understand.

You own a nice double lot in your trailer park. You go off to Walmart only to find, upon your return that someone parked their trailer in your lot. Now you try to reason with them to get them off. You even go to the trailer park committee to try and get them to move. But one ass in the trailer committee not only vetos it, they give your new neighbour a ****load of weapons to make sure that if you stay complacent. needless to say, you'd hate the prick in your lot and you'd hate the ****-er that does everything in their power to support your new enemy.

Got it now

[tryinhard]

The United Nations has been involved in various problems in the Middle East since 1947. Whereas the Korean War and the Congo issue were settled in the sense that there was no further outbreak of hostilities, the United Nations has not managed to do the same in the Middle East. Wars have broken out in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 and severe problems exist to this day.

After World War One, Britain had governed Palestine as a League of Nations mandate. Britain got more and more embroiled in the area and in 1947 asked the United Nations to take over the duty of running the area. The Palestinians and the Jews in the area may have detested and fought one another but both fought the British troops who were stationed there. By 1947, Britain had had enough.

The United Nations took over the area and set up an eleven-man commission to examine the problem. Their solution was to divide Palestine in half with one part for the Jews and the other for the Palestinians. The Arab nations that surrounded Palestine made it clear that this plan would not be acceptable. Regardless of this – and aware of world sympathy for the Jews in the aftermath of World War Two - the United Nations went ahead with its plan. The General Assembly approved the partition in November 1947.

The United Nations plan came to nothing. The British left Palestine in May 1948 and the Jews set up Israel almost immediately using territory given to them in the United Nations plan. The Arab nations that surrounded Israel immediately attacked with the intention of destroying the new state.

And every thing they have now is a result of defending themselves and taking land from there oppressors, a bunch of jew hating bastards who would like nothing more than to kill everyone, so take your misguided trailor park lingo and use it to start denying the holocaust!

[bar scrapper]

To make your analogy true, you would have to add that the person who's trailer parked in their spot actually owned that spot years ago, but forced out against his will by a larger mob of agressors. (Seeing as Israel existed long before Palestine was even a word )

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by tryinhard

And every thing they have now is a result of defending themselves and taking land from there oppressors, a bunch of jew hating bastards who would like nothing more than to kill everyone, so take your misguided trailor park lingo and use it to start denying the holocaust!

Oh, and you were getting so close. Why stop in 1948? Do you want to continue on and explain to the masses what happened in 1967? Do you also want to demonstrate that Israel has signed a number of non-aggression pacts with those "arab nations seeking to destroy Israel"? (ie egypt and lebanon)

It is the OCCUPATION of the Westbank and Gaza, which began in 1967 and continues today that infuriates Arabs. Have a look at the text of Bin Laden's speeches. Its right there. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C36E87F61F.htm

Obviously there is alot of rhetoric there. And the use of violence to combat violence is not the way to solve any issue. And of course what happened on 9/11 was the most heinious act that anyone can perpetrate.

BUT, it is important to understand the reasons behind such actions, and how the policies of a government can bring such disasters on.

And no, I do not hate jews. In fact, I grew up in an area with a large number of jews and I had a number of Jewish friends. So please, lets not make assumptions about me. Just trying to shed some light on an issue.

[fumbrunner]

Originally Posted by bar scrapper

To make your analogy true, you would have to add that the person who's trailer parked in their spot actually owned that spot years ago, but forced out against his will by a larger mob of agressors. (Seeing as Israel existed long before Palestine was even a word )

When?? Please enlighten me?

[na_feu]

that territory was occupied by Jews way back while they were still building pyraminds, then many years later the Romans took it over. then on another bright day arab whordes from North Africa invaded the region then they took it over.....then the crusades went on to drive the muslims from the Holy City...
Wasn't Jesus Jewish and the city of Nazareth somewhere in Israel...I dont remember any Palestinians in the bible...do you remember any?

...I dunno though, I do remember something about some buttholes throwing rocks at the 3 wise men...that could have been them...