Chuck Norris

[mitchcumstein]

Good rant Boyd. Yours are usually right on the money. Too bad i must spread it around before i can give you any.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

I pretty much agree to everything you said here. I probably lean more to the side of dont do it. Especially if there's no goal other than ego.

Thanks guys. Like I said, I'm not a huge advocate nor am I against it - people have their own reasons for doing it. The people I do think get the most out of it are in their 40s. My clients are high end so I require a blood test before they even get started. I want them to see their hormone levels before they start so I can tell them what they can expect. I'm all for guys that have deficiencies using HRT. I think life is too great when your hormone levels are near the upper area of the acceptable ranges. Male menopause is all too real, and I've never made a secret about it: if my levels were to drop below what I consider acceptable, I'd be on permanent HRT.

Now, my above rant wasn't about HRT, but I was kind of being all-inclusive. I don't condem people for their reasons (even if it is vanity) as long as they do their homework and know what they're getting into. I don't judge, and I never just accuse people of doing it - I think that carrot top thread the other day made me think of this. We had 20 schmucks saying "He's juiced" and it just made me laugh as if the dude just sticks a pin in his ass and he's ripped to shreds. I don't see him on any anti-steroid debates on Capital Hill, you know? He's an adult that can do whatever the hell he wants!

It's just too easy for these kids on here that have never made any real progress or have never seen a cut in their life to say "He's juicing" when they see someone pushing serious weight or looking good. I'd bet $10,000 to a doughnut that maybe one or two guys on this board could start juicing and would ever have John Pinder's strength (Vadge comes to mind, maybe one or two more) but other than that, all of the oil in the world isn't going to make any of these guys 500lb benchers, 700lb pullers or big ass squatters - and if that isn't their cup of tea, 10g of test per day isn't going to get them in comp shape either. They just won't put forth the intensity to do so no matter if they have more pins going in than a porcupine has coming out of them. Hell, even sports related - there are millions of people using gear in this country, how come Barry Bonds is the only one about to break Hank Aaron's record? It isn't as easy as juicing and making progress.

On the other side of that (in fairness), I love it when guys kind of blow off the effect of what their chemical assistance has provided and pretend that they'd be in the same position without it. LOL

[Traps]

Yeah HRT is the exception to the rule. Speaking of....... man I wish I could find a doctor to hook me up.

[Vengeance]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

Well, first off, size changes have VERY little to do with my list. RECOVERY is the most important aspect of usage for baseball players.

Yes, I know. I also know they help with injuries. I wasn't Ripken, etc didn't use them ,but i'm not saying he did. it's not as obvious.


I doubt Gering used them...or Ruth...that's why I have more respect for the old guys, heavier bats, less pampering, bigger parks...sure a few less games, but not that much less.

I also know all about the middle ground you speak of, and that steriods are the not evil that some claim if used intelligently.

Still not touching 'em till my 40's if ever.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Vengeance

I doubt Gering used them...or Ruth...that's why I have more respect for the old guys, heavier bats, less pampering, bigger parks...sure a few less games, but not that much less.

I have no respect for them because of the simple level of competition AND the fact they never played against black players. I'm not saying they weren't great for their times, but it was a different era. Now, kids are groomed to be pro athletes from the time they are born.

[JackCapp]

I know you don’t want this in your journal, but you brought it over here.

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I never just accuse people of doing it - I think that carrot top thread the other day made me think of this. We had 20 schmucks saying "He's juiced" and it just made me laugh as if the dude just sticks a pin in his ass and he's ripped to shreds. I don't see him on any anti-steroid debates on Capital Hill, you know? He's an adult that can do whatever the hell he wants!

First off, you made a list of people you thought were using a few posts back:

Originally Posted by musclesntx

IF I HAD TO BET, I'd say that these former players do or did use gear or GH, and they seem to get a free pass:
-Clemens
-Ripken Jr
-ARod
-Randy Johnson
-Papi Ortiz

Second, nobody said Carrot Top doesn’t train hard or claimed he woke up one day, pinned himself and was magically transformed. Nobody said he was a cheater or should be condemned. At least I didn't. That’s an assumption you made. I believe Carrot Top busts his ass. But that doesn’t make the debate about whether or not he uses juice irrelevant. Steroids are a part of this subculture, and their impact is capable of having a large impact on how people progress. It’s only fitting that people would discuss it in a forum that is dedicated to the subculture. He’s a PUBLIC PERSONALITY who goes out of his way to show off how his physique has changed. If he, or anyone else, doesn’t like the question being raised, that’s too bad.

You're a great poster who provides boatloads of great info, but ease up on flaming people who are discussing a perfectly relevant topic.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by JackCapp

I know you don’t want this in your journal, but you brought it over here.



First off, you made a list of people you thought were using a few posts back:



Second, nobody said Carrot Top doesn’t train hard or claimed he woke up one day, pinned himself and was magically transformed. Nobody said he was a cheater or should be condemned. At least I didn't. That’s an assumption you made. I believe Carrot Top busts his ass. But that doesn’t make the debate about whether or not he uses juice irrelevant. Steroids are a part of this subculture, and their impact is capable of having a large impact on how people progress. It’s only fitting that people would discuss it in a forum that is dedicated to the subculture. He’s a PUBLIC PERSONALITY who goes out of his way to show off how his physique has changed. If he, or anyone else, doesn’t like the question being raised, that’s too bad.

You're a great poster who provides boatloads of great info, but ease up on flaming people who are discussing a perfectly relevant topic.

Yep, I made that comment that they use and I also said "and I don't give a damn, it's their business." It wasn't as if I was pointing a finger - it was just that I suspect it - My observation was really about how Bonds is unfairly singled out, as if he's the only one that uses it when he is on a VERY level playing field. Again, I watch baseball to be entertained, so I could give a damn less - I want to see home runs and lots of them. I'm not saying legalize them and let it be an all out IFBB style slugfest, but to pretend that Bonds is one of the only 3 or 4 guys doing what he's doing is absurd.

I don't think CT needs me to defend him - I just don't think it is anyone's business but his. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the fact that he is a public personality doesn't mean he has an obligation to tell everyone everything he does. My point was that in that thread, there were people just throwing out that he's juicing and that's why his body looks good. IMO, it was to make themselves feel better about their lack of progress. Is he an idiot? Probably. Am I entertained by him? No. Do I think he busts his ass harder than 99% of the people in this forum do? Yes.

I wish I could see your point in your post. I respect you growing a sack and debating me, but I don't see what you're getting at.

I simply don't have respect for people that have no physique to speak of throwing sh!t at people who do look good because they may or may not be on gear. On the other end of the spectrum, (as I mentioned) I also don't respect people that totally dismiss the benefits of gear as they could've achieved the exact same progress naturally.

LOL - btw, I'll flame whenever I see fit. I realize that most people don't want the truth, they want confirmation. But I'll definitely call them as I see them...

[musclesntx]

A'ight, in prep for Herpe (not really) I hammered back and arms together because I won't have time to lift tomorrow and I will be too hung over to lift on Friday. Saturday we'll all be jousting, so I should be fresh to do whatever anyone wants, including cage fighting Nate.

DEADS! Heavy ass deads. I could feel my hips saying "Hey f*cker, warm up more!"

315x3
405x3
495x3
585x3
635x1
645x1

Man, that was heavy as hell.

Pull Ups
I'm out of gas, so I just cranked out 4x10

DB Rows
100x15x5

Pulldowns
200x12x3

Rear Flies SS Face Pulls
45x15 - 150x15 x 3

I then did some arms. I only did one bicep exercise and alternated with my tricep exercises (DB Curls) and did overhead tricep extensions (db) and db skulls. Just some quick, heavy work. I'm not writing that sh!t down.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

..and I will be too hung over to lift on Friday. Saturday we'll all be jousting, so I should be fresh to do whatever anyone wants, including cage fighting Nate.

come on man, we can lift on Friday, hungover and all. Need something to get the alcohol out of my system to start fresh that night.

Some badass deads. I need you to show me what the hell I need to do to get mine moving up to the 600 range.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

come on man, we can lift on Friday, hungover and all. Need something to get the alcohol out of my system to start fresh that night.

Some badass deads. I need you to show me what the hell I need to do to get mine moving up to the 600 range.

I watch you hit one set that is heavy for you and I bet I can help you increase it 50-75lbs in 4-6 weeks.

I'm all for lifting Friday if I can walk without vomitting.

[JackCapp]

My point was clear as a bell, but I’ll simplify it for you. Carrot Top and whether or not he might use steroids is a valid discussion. No one said “he doesn’t work out hard” or “I’d look like CT if I took juice” or “he trains like a pussy, he’s only that big because of steroids”. No one said that. You constructed all that yourself, built a straw man with it, and set it on fire. Then, after all that ranting, you did the exact same thing by tossing in 5 ballplayers, regardless of your follow-up about Bonds being singled out.

I guess I just call them as I see them…

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by JackCapp

My point was clear as a bell, but I’ll simplify it for you. Carrot Top and whether or not he might use steroids is a valid discussion. No one said “he doesn’t work out hard” or “I’d look like CT if I took juice” or “he trains like a pussy, he’s only that big because of steroids”. No one said that. You constructed all that yourself, built a straw man with it, and set it on fire. Then, after all that ranting, you did the exact same thing by tossing in 5 ballplayers, regardless of your follow-up about Bonds being singled out.

I guess I just call them as I see them…

While I enjoyed your ability to put multiple clever sayings/cliches into a 120 word post, I still "simply" disagree. I can tell you're fragile on the subject, so without hurting your feelings and hearing about chickens being counted before they hatch, grass being greener on the other side or RRAdam's classic about your mother being uglier than a mud fence, I'll say this: my point about people's attitudes about steroid users taking a completely easy path was only brought to a boil by that Carrot Top thread, that wasn't the only place you can find that attitude here - if you're unable to infer as much from the 10,000,000 comments like "yeah, but he's on juice" that are abound on this board, then you need to pull your head out of your ass, as it is evident it is lodged deeply.

My defense of CT was for one reason, the overwhelming sense of jealousy that was being displayed in that thread. Regardless if he's on gear, GH, IGF1 or whatever, he still looks better than 99% of clowns that want to bash him - and in my opinion, how he got there is totally irrelavent.

And I disagree about the relavence of CT's steroid use. It really is nobody's business. You can discuss whatever the f*ck you want, but it is totally irrelavent.

Baseball players AND/OR their drug use, ON THE OTHER HAND, are quite valid discussions. I don't think the US Congress gives a sh!t about CT or what he does, but there's a pretty big Federal investigation going on right now that happens to involve a man that is about to shatter the most coveted record in sports. ALSO, there was a very serious likelihood of congressional intervention if baseball didn't take bigger steps to clean up its act... So, to compare the two is like apples and oranges - CT is an irrelavent actor that isn't currently the headline of every sports related show every single day. Barry Bonds and drug use in baseball IS.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by JackCapp

My point was clear as a bell, but I’ll simplify it for you. Carrot Top and whether or not he might use steroids is a valid discussion. No one said “he doesn’t work out hard” or “I’d look like CT if I took juice” or “he trains like a pussy, he’s only that big because of steroids”. No one said that. You constructed all that yourself, built a straw man with it, and set it on fire. Then, after all that ranting, you did the exact same thing by tossing in 5 ballplayers, regardless of your follow-up about Bonds being singled out.

I guess I just call them as I see them…

Im not following your point if you even have one. A thread like the CT thread inherently "implies" that ppl think he's big because he juices. What other purpose would it serve? The majority of people have no idea what steroids are, how they work, or how to train juiced or natty for that matter. And so what if Boyd made a list of Baseball players he thought was juiced. What does that have to do with anything? He didnt say they looked huge so they must be juiced, he simply said he thinks these guys get a free pass somehow because theyre superstars or for whatever reason.

[JackCapp]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Im not following your point if you even have one. A thread like the CT thread inherently "implies" that ppl think he's big because he juices.

So why is it wrong to discuss that in a bodybuilding forum? That's my point. No need to move to another thread and bad-mouth the other posters because they want to discuss that. If you do, expect to get called on it. If someone's skin isn't thick enough for that, they shouldn't have started throwing darts in the first place.

Originally Posted by musclesntx

While I enjoyed your ability to put multiple clever sayings/cliches into a 120 word post, I still "simply" disagree. I can tell you're fragile on the subject, so without hurting your feelings and hearing about chickens being counted before they hatch, grass being greener on the other side or RRAdam's classic about your mother being uglier than a mud fence, I'll say this: my point about people's attitudes about steroid users taking a completely easy path was only brought to a boil by that Carrot Top thread, that wasn't the only place you can find that attitude here - if you're unable to infer as much from the 10,000,000 comments like "yeah, but he's on juice" that are abound on this board, then you need to pull your head out of your ass, as it is evident it is lodged deeply.

My defense of CT was for one reason, the overwhelming sense of jealousy that was being displayed in that thread. Regardless if he's on gear, GH, IGF1 or whatever, he still looks better than 99% of clowns that want to bash him - and in my opinion, how he got there is totally irrelavent.

And I disagree about the relavence of CT's steroid use. It really is nobody's business. You can discuss whatever the f*ck you want, but it is totally irrelavent.

Baseball players AND/OR their drug use, ON THE OTHER HAND, are quite valid discussions. I don't think the US Congress gives a sh!t about CT or what he does, but there's a pretty big Federal investigation going on right now that happens to involve a man that is about to shatter the most coveted record in sports. ALSO, there was a very serious likelihood of congressional intervention if baseball didn't take bigger steps to clean up its act... So, to compare the two is like apples and oranges - CT is an irrelavent actor that isn't currently the headline of every sports related show every single day. Barry Bonds and drug use in baseball IS.

Got it. Speculating on the role of steroids as related to the physical gains made by an actor/comedian is wrong and means that I'm dismissing his work ethic. Speculating on baseball players is different because there's a Congressional investigation.

What if Congress investigates Carrot Top? Is he fair game?

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by JackCapp

So why is it wrong to discuss that in a bodybuilding forum? That's my point. No need to move to another thread and bad-mouth the other posters because they want to discuss that. If you do, expect to get called on it. If someone's skin isn't thick enough for that, they shouldn't have started throwing darts in the first place.

That thread epitomizes the popular misconceptions about roids. If the focus of that thread had been about how CT has done well in the gym, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Instead, 99% of the posters(including yourself) in that thread said "man, he got big, he must be juicin. I know a fvckin juicer when i see one." 2 people in that whole thread had the sense enough to say "who the fvck cares if hes juicin, he obviously trains hard and eats right. And ugly ass face aside, looks better than the majority on this board." If that hits home too hard then thats not our fault.

The problem is most ppl assume cause one guy achieves a look that they cant naturally, then the other guy must be juicin. Thats foolish. It could be a whole handful of things includin better genetics, better diet, and the big one no one wants to admit, He(CT) knows how to train and they dont.