Chuck Norris

[hrpiii]

what do you mean by this?

-People don't zero out when they're bulking

[GAREALTOR]

I did search on Rotational Carbs - RO CHO (now I know why he made the acronym).

I'm trying to rest this week, but the more I read the more I want to go out there. I think I am not alone in wanting to go out there and be perfect. Eat right, lift right, run right.... etc.

I also did a search for REFEED and found nothing but your posts. Refeeding is what, exactly? Sounded like a "hi carb day" - not sure.

Thanks!

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

what do you mean by this?

-People don't zero out when they're bulking

I think it's a big mistake not to do so. Kind of like the opposite of a refeed. Give your body the chance to reset its sensitivity to insulin, leptin and other anabolic hormones. A step back to take 10 forward. Too many people think that bulking is just eating as much as possible and going from there. It's a poor method.

Originally Posted by GAREALTOR

I did search on Rotational Carbs - RO CHO (now I know why he made the acronym).

I'm trying to rest this week, but the more I read the more I want to go out there. I think I am not alone in wanting to go out there and be perfect. Eat right, lift right, run right.... etc.

I also did a search for REFEED and found nothing but your posts. Refeeding is what, exactly? Sounded like a "hi carb day" - not sure.

Thanks!

Refeeding is in essence a higher carb day. It really isn't discussed on this board, because honestly, there isn't a lot of highly educational posts on here. Refeeding is a way to reset sensitivity and production of anabolic hormones that are suppressed during periods of caloric deficit.

My carb cycling is a bit different than others for a few reasons. First off, I hate numbers and I also hate measuring. It's all based on timing. You have some basics for protein that you must hit every meal, but after that, it's all about the sources of carbs you choose. I haven't really bothered to explain this here but here's what I'd do:

Refeed days:
-Low GI carbs EVERY meal but the last one. You must get x amount of protein per meal (and I'd probably go 1g per lb of bw divided over your number of meals). Fat is minimal (all healthy). Once you get your base protein, you can eat all of the sub 40gi carbs you want each meal EXCEPT the LAST ONE. Always, veggies are unlimited.

Low carb days:
-Carbs are at 3 times per day - breakfast, pre wo and post wo. Same thing as above. You get the base protein (which I'd probably start at 1.2-1.5g per lb of bw divided over the total number of meals) and you get all of the low GI carbs you can get during those 3 meals. I have exceptions for people who workout in the AM and such, but this is the basis. Veggies in every single meal that doesn't have a carb source. Dietary fat is important in the zero carb meals as well.

Zero carb days:
-Non-workout days. Protein is a bit higher here (1.5-1.8g per lb). No carbs means no carbs. Dietary fat is important in most every meal for the full effect. Get the minimum amount of protein in each meal, but if you need more, go ahead. NEVER schedule two zero carb days back to back, as we aren't trying to go into ketosis.

This is all about meal timing and hormone manipulation, which is the most important factor in nutrient partitioning (using the right stuff at the right time - fat for energy, protein for muscle, not catabolizing muscle for protein, etc).

Now, this is just an outline and I can make adjustments to myself or to someone that I'm training that I have doing this as necessary (with moderate carb days or whatever). But again, this is an OUTLINE and not the absolute way that I'd recommend for everyone.

If you're one of those people that are obsessed with numbers, do your own thing, I don't care. But I'm telling you now - most people have great success with this no matter their goals/condition. I know of no more effective strategy for the simultaneous gaining of muscle mass and losing bodyfat.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by GAREALTOR

I'm trying to rest this week, but the more I read the more I want to go out there. I think I am not alone in wanting to go out there and be perfect. Eat right, lift right, run right.... etc.

As soon as you figure out what being perfect and running right, eating right and lifting right is let me know!

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

As soon as you figure out what being perfect and running right, eating right and lifting right is let me know!

when you see me in 4 wks, then you'll see what it looks like ...hahahahaha.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

when you see me in 4 wks, then you'll see what it looks like ...hahahahaha.

So you're bringing me a mirror?

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Man that sucks. I know my kids have narrowly missed the corner of the coffee table or something that would cut thier melon right open many many times. If its gonna happen, its gonna happen. Cant follow em around with a pillow all day unfortunately. Hope he feels better.

The day after i made this post my 2 year old daughter almost lost her eye. Weird????? She tripped and fell into a wire framed doll bed and it came apart with a sharp part sticking upwards, i dont know how she didnt get the eyeball cause she gouged it good above and below. Heres a pic when it happened, its black and blue now too.

Hows your little guy doin?

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I think it's a big mistake not to do so. Kind of like the opposite of a refeed. Give your body the chance to reset its sensitivity to insulin, leptin and other anabolic hormones. A step back to take 10 forward. Too many people think that bulking is just eating as much as possible and going from there. It's a poor method.



Refeeding is in essence a higher carb day. It really isn't discussed on this board, because honestly, there isn't a lot of highly educational posts on here. Refeeding is a way to reset sensitivity and production of anabolic hormones that are suppressed during periods of caloric deficit.

My carb cycling is a bit different than others for a few reasons. First off, I hate numbers and I also hate measuring. It's all based on timing. You have some basics for protein that you must hit every meal, but after that, it's all about the sources of carbs you choose. I haven't really bothered to explain this here but here's what I'd do:

Refeed days:
-Low GI carbs EVERY meal but the last one. You must get x amount of protein per meal (and I'd probably go 1g per lb of bw divided over your number of meals). Fat is minimal (all healthy). Once you get your base protein, you can eat all of the sub 40gi carbs you want each meal EXCEPT the LAST ONE. Always, veggies are unlimited.

Low carb days:
-Carbs are at 3 times per day - breakfast, pre wo and post wo. Same thing as above. You get the base protein (which I'd probably start at 1.2-1.5g per lb of bw divided over the total number of meals) and you get all of the low GI carbs you can get during those 3 meals. I have exceptions for people who workout in the AM and such, but this is the basis. Veggies in every single meal that doesn't have a carb source. Dietary fat is important in the zero carb meals as well.

Zero carb days:
-Non-workout days. Protein is a bit higher here (1.5-1.8g per lb). No carbs means no carbs. Dietary fat is important in most every meal for the full effect. Get the minimum amount of protein in each meal, but if you need more, go ahead. NEVER schedule two zero carb days back to back, as we aren't trying to go into ketosis.

This is all about meal timing and hormone manipulation, which is the most important factor in nutrient partitioning (using the right stuff at the right time - fat for energy, protein for muscle, not catabolizing muscle for protein, etc).

Now, this is just an outline and I can make adjustments to myself or to someone that I'm training that I have doing this as necessary (with moderate carb days or whatever). But again, this is an OUTLINE and not the absolute way that I'd recommend for everyone.

If you're one of those people that are obsessed with numbers, do your own thing, I don't care. But I'm telling you now - most people have great success with this no matter their goals/condition. I know of no more effective strategy for the simultaneous gaining of muscle mass and losing bodyfat.

This sounds wonderfull, but do you really think that one zero carb or low carb day once in a while is gonna make the trick?

If yes what is a normal schedule for you?

Refeed for how many days,
Then Zero carb?
Then what? What's a general plan to follow with that. I might give it a shot.

And where do you place fruit in that? --> They are not low gi... well most of them are not...

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by NPayette

This sounds wonderfull, but do you really think that one zero carb or low carb day once in a while is gonna make the trick?

If yes what is a normal schedule for you?

Refeed for how many days,
Then Zero carb?
Then what? What's a general plan to follow with that. I might give it a shot.

And where do you place fruit in that? --> They are not low gi... well most of them are not...

LOL - I don't know anything about you (aside that you got your ass kicked by a pimp). So I can't just say "this is what you'd do" because I'd need to know your goals, size, etc.

Before I'd have someone do this, I'd know what they've been doing for the last several weeks/months and would give them a one-two week metabolism adjustment period.

Absolutely, a scheduled zero out/refeed does the trick - they guys over at Avant have several studies on hand showing the effects that a refeed has on Leptin. Go check out the series of articles they wrote: Leptin, The Next Big Thing for reference. Sir Savage could probably point you in the right direction if you can't find it on Google.

Oh yeah, I have a wide sample of people that I personally have used to test these on, and they've had great results. Remember, this is my job.

My schedule varies depending on what I'm doing, and how I'm going to do it. I don't freak out because it isn't laid out, and I play it by ear. The leaner I get, the more I refeed due to the fact that your body is battling to get to its setpoint - I appease it just to fool it.

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

LOL - I don't know anything about you (aside that you got your ass kicked by a pimp). So I can't just say "this is what you'd do" because I'd need to know your goals, size, etc.

Before I'd have someone do this, I'd know what they've been doing for the last several weeks/months and would give them a one-two week metabolism adjustment period.

Absolutely, a scheduled zero out/refeed does the trick - they guys over at Avant have several studies on hand showing the effects that a refeed has on Leptin. Go check out the series of articles they wrote: Leptin, The Next Big Thing for reference. Sir Savage could probably point you in the right direction if you can't find it on Google.

Oh yeah, I have a wide sample of people that I personally have used to test these on, and they've had great results. Remember, this is my job.

My schedule varies depending on what I'm doing, and how I'm going to do it. I don't freak out because it isn't laid out, and I play it by ear. The leaner I get, the more I refeed due to the fact that your body is battling to get to its setpoint - I appease it just to fool it.

I currently follow what you call a low carb day almost all the time, except few no carbs day extreme high protein.

I am 5 7", 218lbs, about 16-17%bf. 22 Years old. Workout out following a DC plan and DC diet. So I carb cut off at 6-7h PM everyday except on week-end sometimes I cheat, but sometimes I also go no carbs on week-end or extreme low carbs (breakfast only).

Most of my fat intake comes from fish oil, nuts, fish (tuna, sardines, salmon) and red meat (I eat lots of extra lean ground beef and steak...)

I don't like sugar so most of my simple carbs are coming from fruit.

My goal, long term is a good 240-250# at around 12-14% bf... (I now accept to incorporate the use of super supps. [it's new])

So here's a little history on me . Been training for 9 years, but back in it for 2-3 years consistently and 2 years really serious. Went from 180 20%bf to 218 16% in the last 2 year, haven't hit a plateau yet or had problem gaining more.


Sorry for my english as you know I'm a frenchies

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by NPayette

I currently follow what you call a low carb day almost all the time, except few no carbs day extreme high protein.

I am 5 7", 218lbs, about 16-17%bf. 22 Years old. Workout out following a DC plan and DC diet. So I carb cut off at 6-7h PM everyday except on week-end sometimes I cheat, but sometimes I also go no carbs on week-end or extreme low carbs (breakfast only).

Most of my fat intake comes from fish oil, nuts, fish (tuna, sardines, salmon) and red meat (I eat lots of extra lean ground beef and steak...)

I don't like sugar so most of my simple carbs are coming from fruit.

My goal, long term is a good 240-250# at around 12-14% bf... (I now accept to incorporate the use of super supps. [it's new])

So here's a little history on me . Been training for 9 years, but back in it for 2-3 years consistently and 2 years really serious. Went from 180 20%bf to 218 16% in the last 2 year, haven't hit a plateau yet or had problem gaining more.


Sorry for my english as you know I'm a frenchies

Bonjour Monsieur, merci. Cela n'est pas de problème. J'ai du français d'études pas mal de, mais c'est rouillé.

(Pardon my French, it has been a while since I've written anything in it, and I forget the tense rules... I've also used much more Spanish in the last few years, so I get mixed up a lot.)

I definitely recommend paying more attention to the GI of foods as opposed to whether or not they're simple or complex. Of course, fiber intake is paramount for absorption.

I'd also say this - if you like what you're doing and it is working, why change? I bring this up because a lot of people just feel the need to try whatever, but you sound like you're making progress. I'm not the type of person that believes there is only one way to get from point A to point B. I believe in finding the most efficient way and using that path. I've eaten very similar to the way you talk about eating and I've done well with it, but I'm also very aware of the power of insulin and the benefits of using it to your advantage. That's the ONLY thing I don't like about living off of protein, you never really harness that, and people forget its importance in suppressing cortisol.

If you're interested in discussing my method or trying it, I'll chat more about it. But I'm also going to tell you that if you're making continuous progress on what you're doing, don't change it brother.

[NPayette]

If just for knowledge sake, I'm ready to discuss. And you know everybody is making progress I think, but is it really optimal progress? No, it doesn't exist... You always have some you can tweak... That's why I'm ready to see if in your method I can incorporate something...

On the week-end I rarely train (other then cardio). So I am ready to play with low carbs and no carbs there. If you say that I can increase my sensitivity to Leptin and Insulin with a simple low-carb and zero-carb play during my week-end I'll for sure try and play around with it.

I am gaining, yeah but when I was younger I have been as big as 220 at 12% bf but from there it was hard. I know I'm going to have the same problem to get it higher. It's just easy to get back at this point...

Just like you I don't count my carbs or fat, just make sure to have enough. But my protein is at least 2x my bodyweight everyday splitted overm the course of my meal.

On training day I incorporate the Bracketing Method from AST-SS. (Pretty sure you know their theory, seems to work pretty well for me.)

If you need any more info to check out what you would tweak, I'll give it to you .

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I've eaten very similar to the way you talk about eating and I've done well with it, but I'm also very aware of the power of insulin and the benefits of using it to your advantage. That's the ONLY thing I don't like about living off of protein, you never really harness that, and people forget its importance in suppressing cortisol.

I'm curious about this concept... can you explain?

[NPayette]

A sample day. (Today in fact )

8:00 AM
6 whole Omega 3 egg
2 piece of whole wheat bread (large slice)
1 banana
1 scoop in skimmed milk

10:00 AM
Big bowl of high fiber/protein cereal. (Optimum Power)
2 can of sardines.

12:00 PM
1 Orange juice mixed with creatine and Greens+ Energy
2 scoop in water

12:30 Training (Cardio day + DC abs)

1:30 PM
3 scoops in a smoothies (Blueberry, Pineapple, Banana, Acaï) + Green force + Spirullina + Green tea extract

2:00 PM
half a pound of Extra Lean ground beef + brown rice until I'm full.

4:00 PM (Just finished)
2 scoops of whey in Skimmed milk
Green Tea

6:00 PM (Last meal with carbs)
2 125g steak. + brown rice and mixed green veggies
Green tea

9:00 PM
2-3 large chicken breast + a bunch of green veggies
Green tea

12:00 AM (Pre-Bed time)
2 scoops in skimmed milk with a bit of Olive oil in it.

I am not including supps. and drink minimum of 2 gallon of water...

[musclesntx]

Hey Pepe,

What days of the week do you workout?