GIRLS (or guys)- help me with my diet!

[buxiaohui]

Hi everyone!
I’ve been reading your advice, Jujitsugirl, Phatchick, meera and others, and I really need help!
I’ve posted some of my info on the newbie intro board, but will review my stats here: 5’7.5”; 115 lbs; late 20’s. My workout? Every other day, I do Pilates, Ballet exercises, and Yoga for 45 min.(total). I just added 4 additional exercises (30 min. total) after that: 2 exercises working arms/chest/back, 2 exercises working legs/butt/abs. Occasionally I’ll add 15-20 min. of cardio- - but all on the same days as I do other work. My off days are my off days.
As you can see, I'm wanting to add muscle (which will replace/burn the fat in the process, right?).

About my diet: I’ve read your recommendations, but still have several questions. I calculated (not sure if correct) my BMR at 1134; calories I need between 1580 (on off days)-1683 (on ‘on’ days) calories. Does anyone do zig-zag program dieting? If so, how do you do that? Zig-zag makes sense, but I admit that it doesn’t make sense to me to eat the SAME amount of calories on my off days.?..(Obviously, I’ll burn less calories on off days. I thought that weight loss came from calorie deficits, not surplus?!).
I’m terrible at math, but it’s extremely hard to add calories up- I’ve been to fitday.com, but they don’t have several items listed that I eat (such as, tonight I made this: grilled chicken breast, fresh tomatoes, fresh spinach, fresh bell pepper, and some vinaigrette wrapped in a corn tortilla. Of course, that wasn’t in there, and I would’ve had to calculate 6 different ingredients in miniscule portions). Can anyone else share how they calculate cals??

Random questions (while I’m thinking of them): Which category are the following foods in, carb, protein, or fat? Peanut butter, milk, yogurt
Why don’t some foods fall into multiple categories? Peanut butter, for example, has all 3 in it, right? What about orange juice, which has all 3, too?

Meal composition: Do I have to have protein AND carbs in EACH of the 4-5 daily meals?? For example, I’ve always heard eating a piece of fruit was healthy, but since it’s carbs, is that not good?! Seems unnatural, and an apple + eggs doesn’t sound really appetizing! I read a post that said for snack you could eat veggies, but that doesn’t have protein, either! Someone help!

Meal timing: I’m trying to space 5 meals evenly thru the day, but have read different things about when to eat in relation to workouts. I’m not doing supplements or protein shakes- not an option for me, so do you recommend me just drinking water during workout (surely not eating, right?)? Do I eat 2-3 hours before workout, then within 30 min. after? Or do I eat 2-3 hours before, then again right before workout, then within 30 min after? OR, if I work out in the morning, should I work out on an empty stomach and then eat afterwards? I’m so confused!>!

ANY help would be so appreciated! I admire all of you for your dedication and hard work (and help for us beginners!)!
Hannah

[rednek555]

might want to seperate these into dirrenet posts, most peopple seem to skip over the long first post asking lots of questions

[Hawkwind]

Hi Hannah,
Sorry to take so long to get to this. I've been trying to understand what you are looking for. I went back to read your intro post also.

My 21 year old daughter is a dancer. So I understand the type of training you are doing with Pilates and ballet and yoga. I do yoga and pilates myself quite often when I need a break and when I need to improve my flexibility.

Now according to your height and weight, you are pretty darn lean. I looked over your caloric estimates and those numbers are similar to mine when I'm not training heavy. (I backpack...I need to bump my intake up very high on the days I'm out all day with a 30 pound pack.)

You may find that you may need to bump your caloric intake up a bit to support the muscle you want to build. If you are already seeing improvement that is a good thing...means you are getting on track pretty darn well.

I've been doing a modified version of Zig-Zagging. I bring my calories up to 2,500-3,000 on my backpacking days, take in 1,700-1,800 on my lifting days and then try and drop back to 1,500-1,600 on my non-lifting/backpacking days.

Most of the time weight loss comes with a caloric deficit...but! If you've been inadvertantly running in a caloric deficit for your bodies needs for a long time...you have basically been in 'starvation' mode...and nothing is happening so that your body can survive. So increasing your caloric intake and taking your body out of that mode will help your metabolism to straighten out and do what it is supposed to be doing.

With fitday sometimes you have to do a bit of a search to find items that you can add in. It's a bit of a pain, but once you have added them in you won't have to do it again. My daughter is a vegan...so she had to add a lot of her stuff in when she first started her account.

Sometimes you can get the information right off the package, other times you have to search online to find something as close as possible. There was a place you could do a search. I think it was called calorieking. The link is probably still down in the diet section in one of the sticky's.

Using something like fitday will break up the foods for you. When I crave peanutbutter I'm usually low on my fat intake for the day. But the break down will show how much is fat, carb and protein right on the journal chart.

As for answers to some of your other questions...I'll have to get back to you tomorrow. I'm getting a bit tired tonight and don't want to mangle the answers. Of couse by then someone might have come along and helped out too.

[buxiaohui]

Thank you, Hawkwind, and all others who might answer me. I know it might be tedious and/or annoying to answer questions that are like 'duh!' to you, but I'm very apprecciative for your help!

I'm not sure if I've been in 'starvation mode' or not- I did eat a lot of calories, but they just weren't GOOD calories (lots of oil, sugar, white bread, candy, chocolate, etc..). Would my body be in starvation mode in that case, as in, starving for proper nutrients??

I look forward to learning more with you so that I can later help others just as you are helping me!

Thanks, Hannah

[phat chick]

OKay i like these kind of posts.... Thank you Hannah for taking the time to add details to your post, it saves us from back-and-forthing with questions to get the ball rolling.

I'm going to respond.... in a few minutes LOL (i always end up typing so much!).

[phat chick]

Yup. I am typing lots LMAO. Surprise surprise. To make people's lives easier, i'm goign to post separate posts.

Originally Posted by buxiaohui

add muscle (which will replace/burn the fat in the process, right?).

About my diet: I’ve read your recommendations, but still have several questions. I calculated (not sure if correct) my BMR at 1134; calories I need between 1580 (on off days)-1683 (on ‘on’ days) calories. Does anyone do zig-zag program dieting? If so, how do you do that? Zig-zag makes sense, but I admit that it doesn’t make sense to me to eat the SAME amount of calories on my off days.?..(Obviously, I’ll burn less calories on off days. I thought that weight loss came from calorie deficits, not surplus?!).
I’m terrible at math, but it’s extremely hard to add calories up- I’ve been to fitday.com, but they don’t have several items listed that I eat (such as, tonight I made this: grilled chicken breast, fresh tomatoes, fresh spinach, fresh bell pepper, and some vinaigrette wrapped in a corn tortilla. Of course, that wasn’t in there, and I would’ve had to calculate 6 different ingredients in miniscule portions). Can anyone else share how they calculate cals??

It's hard to get a decent guestimate on your BMR unless you know what your bodyfat % is. Getting your bodyfat tested via callipers is usually cheap and effective. I wouldn't use those bioelectrical impedance ones that come on scales now... i remember just for fun, getting on mine 3 days prior a show and it read at 21%. No way in HECK i was at 21%, as i was competition-lean...so you see, that is QUITE the difference. Too many variables come into play with those things. The person doing the pinching on you (for calliper readings) should use 7-9 sites, and hopefully you can have the same person do it again for you later. Although calliper isn't 100% accurate either, it can get you pretty darn close. You take your weight and then using your bodyfat % do the math to acquire your LBM weight. From there, you can get an idea of a BMR, and remember, your BMR is not your "dieting range"...it is your caloric requirements to sustain life if you were laying in bed and not moving.

I am also a HUGE believer in tapering...what i mean is, for example. Maybe for some reason you are consuming 1,000 cal a day and have been doing this for quire some time. One day, you go and decide figure out what you need, so you calculate your LBM, your BMR and all that jazz, and voila. You learn that you should be eating in the 1,800 cal/day range. Maybe you are missing 800 cal/day but what would happen if you suddenly added that without working up to it? Yup. I can bet you it is very likely your body will go "what the hell do i do with this?!" and decide to store it. I've fallen into this trap myself LOL after the first year of competing, i went straight from high cardio and low cal to a "maintenance" diet & training. I didn't binge-eat, i still ate clean. And i STILL gained 30 lbs in no time, and boy did that suck! Not the smartest LOL. Since i have learned that tapering out (gradually reducing cardio and increasing calories) is a MUCH better system....physically AND mentally. So when you are creating and calculating a new diet, take into consideration where you are coming from. Generally it is a good idea to avoid steep "peaks and valleys" (weight gains and fluctuations) and aim for a weight loss/gain with a more gradual decline/incline grade.

Zig-zagging is a highly effective method of dieting. I use it myself. Some people will zig-zag calories, some just the macro nutrients (percentage of proteins, carbs, and fat). Usually for instance, if you train legs (generally a pretty intense workout for most people) you'd eat more than a day that was a rest day. I've subscribed to this idea in the past. Currently i've got this super-fantastic diet coach and i've been working with him for only a month, and i am LOVING his system...as i am seeing some awesome results. He actually has me on the same daily amount of calories, no matter what i'm training (and i get one rest day), but it's my macro nutrients that fluctuate. So a rest day (for me) has only approx. 40g of carbs. My heaviest training day has 150g of carbs, and the other days range between 70g-110g. But every day is always roughly the same amount of total calories. My fat grams are almost the same every day....so this means, when i have a higher carb day, i eat less protein, and vice versa (I"m not saying do MY diet, i'm just trying to illustrate with an example )

Now everyone diet is (and should be) slightly different, so don't be afraid to experiment a little. It also depends on what your goals are and if you are doing something sport-specific. For example, an on-season bodybuilding competition diet should NOT look like a marathoner or triathlete's diet.

Weight loss does come from a caloric deficit but there is also something to be said about the qualities of those calories. This is where 2+2 can equal 5. Make those calorie choices "clean", wholesome foods and you will have better results, guaranteed!!

Fitday is great, i calculate my cals on there. My diet is extremely boring...and i'm not goign to lie LMAO it took me years to get to this point where i can accept eating bland foods without feeling deprived or sorry for myself LMAO (don't get me wrong, i still LOVE taste, and junk food for that matter). I don't actually count vegetables as carbs or calories. I mean, i'm not eating 500 cal of broccoli (can you imagine? that's a LOT of broccoli). So in your example above (...way above LOL) i would, if it were me, just "count" the chicken and the tortilla. And depending on the vinegrette, probably that too. I don't have a lot of condiments so i don't worry about this stuff. I usually only use a bit of tabasco, franks' hot sauce, or maybe a wee bit of salsa (no sugar added). I never count these. You can rely on spices for taste too. (i wasn't lying when i said my diet is very boring LOL).

[phat chick]

Originally Posted by buxiaohui

Random questions (while I’m thinking of them): Which category are the following foods in, carb, protein, or fat? Peanut butter, milk, yogurt
Why don’t some foods fall into multiple categories? Peanut butter, for example, has all 3 in it, right? What about orange juice, which has all 3, too?

Peanut butter = fat
milk = hmm. good one. Probably carb and protein...i never thought about this before, actually. (I don't eat dairy LOL unless it's ice cream)
yogurt = i would probably consider it along the same lines as milk...
Orange juice = definitely a carb. High glycemic one.... (quick-burning).

Almost all foods have trace amounts of other macros. Even lean chicken has fat. But it is such a small amount, that when i do my calculations i consider it a protein source.

Random thought (just a vent, not directed to anyone). I hear this ALLLL the time.... if someone says "oh i crave PB all the time", someone else ALWAYS says, "oh, you are craving protein". What the?? Yes there is a bit of protein in there, but PB is considered a fat source. And beyond that, only meat-protein (and soya, right?) are complete proteins....PB not being a complete protein (having all the amino acids). So if you are "craving protein", woudln't it make more sense to crave something in the meat department? Our bodies are pretty smart. So yeah. Sorry. PB is fat. If you crave PB, it's probably cause you want fat. And because it's yummy.

[phat chick]

Originally Posted by buxiaohui

Meal composition: Do I have to have protein AND carbs in EACH of the 4-5 daily meals?? For example, I’ve always heard eating a piece of fruit was healthy, but since it’s carbs, is that not good?! Seems unnatural, and an apple + eggs doesn’t sound really appetizing! I read a post that said for snack you could eat veggies, but that doesn’t have protein, either! Someone help!

Nope, you do not have to have protein AND carbs at every meal. The idea of not eating a piece of fruit by itelf is because when you eat something like a high glycemic carb (eg. fruit, juice, candy) all by itself, it creates a steep insulin spike.

[Okay let's see how good my noodle is workign today LOL]

Your body wants your blood sugar level to be maintained at a relatively steady level or at least within a fairly narrow range. This is definitely one reason why you want to eat every 2-3 hours...because beyond that, your blood glucose levels start to drop (and then you get grumpy and irritable ;-P).

When you eat food, essentially you are increasing your blood glucose level. Now you have all this glucose floating around and in order to store it your body secretes insulin (many cells in the body cannot access the glucose without the aid of insulin). Insulin is like the dump truck that carries the dirt (aka glucose) to the construction site (muslces, fat).

High glucose is what stimulates your pancreas to release insulin. Now, for instance, you eat a banana (and nothing else). Wham. Blood glucose is up. Now suddenly you have a bunch of dirt that needs to be hauled to the construction site. So the foreman [pancreas] send out the dump trucks. Now there is a panic because of the sudden increase of dirt, so the foreman sends out a LOT of extra dump trucks. Since there are sooo many dump trucks working, they move the dirt relatively quickly, and suddenly, the foreman has 50 dump trucks with no dirt to haul. So the dump truck drivers get p*ssed off and start complaining that they need more dirt.

The foreman doesn't like having 50 dump truck drivers with nothing to do, so he places an order for more dirt [this means you get hungry really fast again]. He orders more dirt, and starts to send a few dump trucks home for the day. Then he sees that lots of dirt is efficiently arriving to the site, so he sends home a few more dump trucks. But he didn't actually stop placing the order for dirt [meaning, you will typically end up over eating even after finally getting blood glucose back to normal levels].

Geeze i hope that kind of made sense LOL. The idea of not eating a piece of fruit by itself is not becaue the fruit is unhealthy, it's because of the frenzy it causes on your hormones. Adding something like a protein shake with your banana slows down the glucose being deposited into your blood stream (because it takes longer to get it there through digestion). So rather than dumping a massive load of dirt and suddenly creative havoc trying to move it, you slowly increase the dirt (and therefore don't have to send out 50 dump trucks all at once).

Vegetables are generally low-glycemic (they don't cause an insulin spike like high glycemic foods do (being fruit, juice, sugar, candy, etc)).

My philosophy is that if you need to "snack"...you probably actually need to eat. A snack can be a mini-meal. However.... If you just feel the need to "snack" because you are bored, stressed, feeling emotional, or watching tv, then that is a WHOLE other issue. When i find myself in those circumstances, i chew sugar-free gum. I know, booooring! LOL..

[phat chick]

oh yeah LOL forgot to finish.

Generally you 'should' eat protein at every meal. You see what the consequences of eating carb-only meals are...especially a high-glycemic carb. The onlytime i would probably ever eat carb-only is if i were in the middle of a marathon and needed to replace glycogen or something, or if i where bingeing on a cheat meal.

You don't have to have carbs at every one of those meals. Often times people will consume their carbs earlier in the day and keep the last couple of meals (toward the evening) protein only, or protein and a wee bit of fat.

[phat chick]

Originally Posted by buxiaohui

Meal timing: I’m trying to space 5 meals evenly thru the day, but have read different things about when to eat in relation to workouts. I’m not doing supplements or protein shakes- not an option for me, so do you recommend me just drinking water during workout (surely not eating, right?)? Do I eat 2-3 hours before workout, then within 30 min. after? Or do I eat 2-3 hours before, then again right before workout, then within 30 min after? OR, if I work out in the morning, should I work out on an empty stomach and then eat afterwards? I’m so confused!>!

Meal timing and working out is another one of those 2+2=5 phenomenons.

I would NEVER weight train on an empty stomach, and i would never reccommend anyone to do so. I do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach (actually i take some branch chain amino acids first). But never weight train. If i don't cardio and weight train at separate sessions (which is what i prefer) i would just add on a bit of cardio at the end of weight training.

Your post workout meal is extremely important. This is one time where something high-glycemic works to your advantage. Having those dump trucks move dirt quickly will help for better recovery and gains. So you can have some fruit or juice. Right now i am using a whey shake that contains a maltodextrin and dextrose mix. In fact this is also the only time i will have a protein shake (unless emergency situations)....and this is also a time where i would suggest that a shake is in fact better than a meal (and one of the only times for that matter). You want quick and easy nutrition for those muscles. Drinking egg whites (pasteurized ones) could be an option, although not as portable, or tastey LOL i've done this before, tastes gross, and you ahve to keep it cold obviously. Actually you can probably put a banana in a blender with some yogurt and or milk, even chocolate milk (and if you are brave, add them egg whites!) and you would have a pretty decent PWO shake.

Immediately after training you want those quick-digesting carbs and some protein. You don't need fat in this meal. Then about maybe an hour or two later, eat a "real" meal.

As for your before meal. In the past i've had to weight train early in the morning right after waking up...not much time to eat and digest and then train. I would mix oatmeal with some whey protein and it works well. Again, if you don't do whey, you can maybe use something like cottage cheese for your protein. The idea is to eat something to give you fuel, but not too much so that you feel like you're going to toss your cookies in the middle of training. You have to experiment a bit with this. Right now i train in the late afternoon, so i will eat a small meal about 1.5 hours before training.

I can eat something like a piece of fruit & shake and train virtually immediately after. If i ate a peanut butter sandwhich, i woudl probably have to wait 2 hours before training. A higher fat meal (or a high volume meal) will require more digestion time (although keeps you full longer). I keep the fat of my pre-training meal in the realm of approx. 5-7 grams.

During the actual workout, yes, drink water. You don't need anything else. I see guys drink gatorade and what not. But if you bracket your workout with nutrition, i feel it is unecessary. Unless you are doing prolonged training lasting over an hour.

What you want to avoid is eating a meal 2-3 hours prior to training, then spending an hour (maybe a little longer) training, and then going home and eating. Suddenly that adds up to like, 5 hours of no food. Still try to eat every 3 hours.

[phat chick]

Originally Posted by buxiaohui

I’ve posted some of my info on the newbie intro board, but will review my stats here: 5’7.5”; 115 lbs; late 20’s. My workout? Every other day, I do Pilates, Ballet exercises, and Yoga for 45 min.(total). I just added 4 additional exercises (30 min. total) after that: 2 exercises working arms/chest/back, 2 exercises working legs/butt/abs. Occasionally I’ll add 15-20 min. of cardio- - but all on the same days as I do other work. My off days are my off days.
As you can see, I'm wanting to add muscle (which will replace/burn the fat in the process, right?).

Muscles "cost" your metabolism more energy--even at rest---than fat tissue. So this means, in a sense, if you have more muscles, you need to eat more to maintain that. Eating more is always fun LOL. A revved up metabolism is better for fat burning.

You weight very little for your height...you probably have a model's physique?? Just some general questions, do you maintain your weight easily? Or do you lose weight easily and/or gain weight easily? Some of these factors will come into play as well. If you have ectomorphic traits, you woudln't taylor your diet the same as you would for someone who was endomorphic. Having a general idea of your body type can be helpful. Some people (like ectos) can get away with higher carbs and calories and eating carbs in their evening meals with no repercussions....whereas the same would not be true for an endo. A mesomorph will generally have the best of both worlds (lucky bastards!), they can gain muscle easily, and stay lean easily.

Now for training, if your goal is to gain muscles (assuming by your weight you are pretty lean already).... lift like a power/strength athlete. Lift really heavy, with a longer rest period. Make sure you have a good PWO shake figured out. Bump up your calories a little (but not too much)...assuming you want to stay relatively lean.

Girls are always afraid of lifting heavy in fear of "looking like a man" or "getting too bulky". Take two women who are both size 6 and the one with more muscles will look better....A lean and muscular physique on a woman is hot as hell, and will look lean & tight compared to someone who was the exact same size but less muscle and higher bodyfat. Given our natural hormonal makeup, it is not condusive to adding a lot of size/strength (compared to a man or a woman on steroids). So you don't have to worry. AND... any gains you make, you really have to work hard to keep. So. If 'by accident' you happen to get to a point where you feel that you are getting "too big".... it is easy to take down the size of your muscles (too easy, unfortunately LOL!).

Rest, sleep, lots of water, food choice & timing, low mental/emotional stress... are all factors that are just as important as the training.


Okay. I've written up a storm LMAO. Hope it helps!!