Lifts That People Do Too Much Of and Wonder Why They Don't Grow.

[RJSMuscle]

The real reason I like using the Smith Machine for a lot of stuff is for the safety factor.

12 years ago I suffered a debilitating stroke that left me with a weak left side and poor balance (hence the funny bike).

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread I tried the squats today without the smith and was a bit shaky but I'm convinced that all the muscles my body needs to use to balance the weight on my shoulders will help my overall strength and balance issues. Doing deads has helped also.

I work hard in the gym but because of my weaker side there are a few things I shouldn't or can't use for safety reasons. Dumb bells or any free weight over my head are a no no for me, my left arm just can't control the weight and my right side tries to take over....it's a *****

In time I'm hoping all this will help me build a body that is more even side to side strength wise.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by RJSMuscle

The real reason I like using the Smith Machine for a lot of stuff is for the safety factor.

12 years ago I suffered a debilitating stroke that left me with a weak left side and poor balance (hence the funny bike).

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread I tried the squats today without the smith and was a bit shaky but I'm convinced that all the muscles my body needs to use to balance the weight on my shoulders will help my overall strength and balance issues. Doing deads has helped also.

I work hard in the gym but because of my weaker side there are a few things I shouldn't or can't use for safety reasons. Dumb bells or any free weight over my head are a no no for me, my left arm just can't control the weight and my right side tries to take over....it's a *****

In time I'm hoping all this will help me build a body that is more even side to side strength wise.

Dude, as I've mentioned, there is a time for everything. I'm proud to see that you're doing everything you can do - too many people would give up. Good for you!

[HammerTech]

+1 to that, muscles, and reps to you RJS for bustin @$$ like you do.

[hrpiii]

keep pushing it hard RJS, glad to see you giving it 120%

[BiggerGuns=LongerDrives]

Kudos to everyone fighting the good fight

[VBigNate]

boyd, i know you are the man when it comes to knowing how to train, but what if your delts arent getting enough from just deads alone? wouldnt one want to incorporate shrugs in addition to the deads?

[Matt58]

So Boyd, I know their is no "perfect" workout out there but from these two great threads you've made, on lifts you should and should not be doing, how would you construct/prefer a workout routine to following the info you posted?

[The PhitCoach]

Finally someone with a shred of since in the weight lifting community! Man thanks fo sharing what my typing skills and time won't allow... That was long but needed to be said. My only issue is the traps deal but most people can't do them correctly. And unless you've been doing them correctly and have established the brain muscle connection... all adding weight is going to do is make problems that this exercise can cause be amplified.

I do them on occassion with a hex bar and controlled movements. No shoulder problems here. But the bulk of my trap work comes from Dead lifts, Upright Rows and... the Farmer carry. (Static trap work at its best.)

Good Post,

Coach Scott
Train Hard and Live Well

[RJSMuscle]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

keep pushing it hard RJS, glad to see you giving it 120%

I believe.....What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by VBigNate

boyd, i know you are the man when it comes to knowing how to train, but what if your delts arent getting enough from just deads alone? wouldnt one want to incorporate shrugs in addition to the deads?

I think you mean traps, which are NOT part of the deltoids (which always makes me laugh when people say they're doing shoulders and I see them doing trap work). The trapezius, is without a shadow of a doubt, part of the upper back.

I still wouldn't run to shrugs before face pulls and uprights. If you're doing heavy ass bent rows as well, your traps are going to get plenty of work...

Matt, I gave you the info - just do it! Don't think so much dude!

Thanks Coach Scott

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

people look at me funny when i do upright rows on back day but i always have. i get people saying "i thought you were doin back today". i try and say that upright row is 70% similar to a normal cable row it just puts more emphasis on the upper region rather than the central and lower...
they still think i train wrong!

[Traps]

Upright rows........hmmm. If you have the traps of a 6 year old girl, then upright rows will give them a good workout, otherwise, they are a shoulder movement.

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

Originally Posted by Traps

Upright rows........hmmm. If you have the traps of a 6 year old girl, then upright rows will give them a good workout, otherwise, they are a shoulder movement.

i wouldnt know wether i have traps like that. i dont usually go around looking at six yr old girls

[Merk0135]

Originally Posted by GetFit

Statically? As in they squat down and contract, lift up into position and hold it until their shoulders drop?

He said the traps need to be trained statically for heavy ass deads and to help in trap growth and that's why he does shrugs. The guy is a freakin bowling ball, he's an older guy, hard to guess his age because of his massive size but his lifts are damn impressive, for anybody.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

Upright rows........hmmm. If you have the traps of a 6 year old girl, then upright rows will give them a good workout, otherwise, they are a shoulder movement.

I disagree. If you're using a full ROM and forcefully contracting the traps (which you must know how to do to train any bodypart properly) and force the shoulder blades to stay together on the concentric portion then you're definitely hitting the traps and removing as much delt out of the exercise as possible...

I'd still put this behind hanging cleans and face pulls, but all three of them are infinitely better exercises than shrugs.

Let me point something out JIC there are some people who haven't viewed an anatomy chart since the 7th grade - the part of the trapezius that you see from the front view of a person (the part that is above the shoulders and beside the neck) is only about 20% of the entire muscle group.



That simple piece of information alone should be plenty of evidence about using a 1/3" ROM exercise versus a face pull or an upright row.

If you seriously believe that upright rows are primarily a shoulder movement, you simply a) don't understand basic physiology/human anatomy or b) don't have a clue on how to properly do the exercise.

[Lifter101]

I have seen people doing shrugs with DB while leaning against the incline bench. What's that all about?

[RJSMuscle]

I always thought upright rows were a shoulder exercise......guess I'll be moving them to back day.


besides military press, what are some good compound shoulder movements ? I know shoulders get worked indirectly in other compound movements for chest and back but other than the standard press I'm not sure what else to incorporate into shoulder day

Lateral raises any good ?

[Traps]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I disagree. If you're using a full ROM and forcefully contracting the traps (which you must know how to do to train any bodypart properly) and force the shoulder blades to stay together on the concentric portion then you're definitely hitting the traps and removing as much delt out of the exercise as possible...

I'd still put this behind hanging cleans and face pulls, but all three of them are infinitely better exercises than shrugs.

Let me point something out JIC there are some people who haven't viewed an anatomy chart since the 7th grade - the part of the trapezius that you see from the front view of a person (the part that is above the shoulders and beside the neck) is only about 20% of the entire muscle group.

It takes weight to promote growth. I never said upright rows didnt hit traps. I can definately feel it if I havent worked out in a long time, or dont do shrugs. But if I've been hitting heavy shrugs, the upright rows dont do anything. I use uprights to hit my lateral deltoid.

Let me translate my "traps of a 6 year old girl" statement. If you have small weak traps, upright rows are good for keeping them in some kind of state of fitness. But if the muscle is large and powerfull, the upright rows will not be suffecient enough to sustain the mass, let alone stimulate further growth.

I guess I must be a Trapezious gifted genetic freak. Because I dont do face pulls, I dont do hanging clings. I do shrugs, and my traps grow really well. I'm talking about the entire muscle too, not just the visible part from the front.

Heres a picture of me last ....... oh i dunno...... november. You can obviously see the entire muscle is pretty big(relatively speaking of course). During this time, I wasnt even really hitting heavy shrugs. They had actually regressed a little over a period of a month or two.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2..._BB4U/back.jpg

Here's a front shot from like 2 1/2 years ago
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...untitled2b.jpg

[Lifter101]

I don't see you in that picture. Are you hiding behind the shaved gorilla?

[Matt58]

Traps, you're HUGE man. haha