Lifts That People Do Too Much Of and Wonder Why They Don't Grow.

[GetFit]

Do RC issues come from 'rolling' the exercise or performing it correctly?

[jlozan84]

Originally Posted by GetFit

Do RC issues come from 'rolling' the exercise or performing it correctly?

I would think from rolling it back or forward.......

[HammerTech]

More than likely I'd say from the rolling. I see a guy in my gym who rolls his shoulders tremendously during shrugs and MY rotators scream...can only imagine how his feel. I think he's doing DB's around 80...

I do shrugs of the BB variety, straight up, straight down, no rolling. At first they were of benefit, but that benefit is waning, so I'm dropping them.

[mitchcumstein]

Do deadlifts and hanging cleans and youll get all the trap workout you need.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by jlozan84

Traps - I know you are a big shrugs advocate, so I won't argue that point. What do you think about claims of RC risks with doing them? Do you find it a coincidence that you have had major shoulder issues and you do extremely heavy shrugs?

Thats a good point, and I figured someone might bring that up. I attribute my shoulder problems to horribly weak delts(they are b*tchs) and a rapid increase in the amount I bench pressed over a period of a month to month and a half. So when your pressing 375 for reps, or trying to press 400lbs with weak ass delts, its really not such a good idea. During this period of time, I wasnt even shrugging all that much weight. In fact I would skip doing them often because of the horrible back pumps I was getting.

[musclesntx]

Good discussion guys - kudos for being able to keep it mature. I want to weigh in as soon as I get another break. Good points from all sides.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Do deadlifts and hanging cleans and youll get all the trap workout you need.

These produce zero results for me with traps. As I've stated before, and this ISNT supposed turn into another discussion about shrugs. My traps are developed beyond my deadlifts or hanging cleans. I can not lift the amount of weight necessary to stimulate my traps in those exercises. Again, I think people are confusing things a little. This isnt a debate as to if the only way to stimulate trap growth is shrugs. I mearly suggested that shrugs are an execellent way to target the traps, and I dont consider them a useless exercise that people should not do.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by HammerTech

More than likely I'd say from the rolling. I see a guy in my gym who rolls his shoulders tremendously during shrugs and MY rotators scream...can only imagine how his feel. I think he's doing DB's around 80...

I do shrugs of the BB variety, straight up, straight down, no rolling. At first they were of benefit, but that benefit is waning, so I'm dropping them.

Never roll your shoulders when shrugging. That's just stupid. There's absolutely no point to it other than to hurt your shoulders.

[GetFit]

Originally Posted by Traps

These produce zero results for me with traps. As I've stated before, and this ISNT supposed turn into another discussion about shrugs. My traps are developed beyond my deadlifts or hanging cleans. I can not lift the amount of weight necessary to stimulate my traps in those exercises. Again, I think people are confusing things a little. This isnt a debate as to if the only way to stimulate trap growth is shrugs. I mearly suggested that shrugs are an execellent way to target the traps, and I dont consider them a useless exercise that people should not do.

So you lift traps because you want them bigger than they need to be? What is it about traps? Why not get a giant neck? My point is that, what do big traps do for you? If they are more than you need to lift a deadlift, then what is the point? Again I don't mean to insult you in any way.

[VBigNate]

Originally Posted by GetFit

So you lift traps because you want them bigger than they need to be? What is it about traps? Why not get a giant neck? My point is that, what do big traps do for you? If they are more than you need to lift a deadlift, then what is the point? Again I don't mean to insult you in any way.

some are bodybuilders, some are powerlifters, and some are both. Powerlifters, i would assume, would not include shrugs because their traps get hit hard enough with deadlifts. Bodybuilders on the other hand, who want the massive traps, like to do shrugs to get to get those mountain peak traps. In TRAPS case, he wants big traps and deads are not sufficient enough, so he does shrugs to build them up.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by VBigNate

some are bodybuilders, some are powerlifters, and some are both. Powerlifters, i would assume, would not include shrugs because their traps get hit hard enough with deadlifts. Bodybuilders on the other hand, who want the massive traps, like to do shrugs to get to get those mountain peak traps. In TRAPS case, he wants big traps and deads are not sufficient enough, so he does shrugs to build them up.

Thanks BigNate, you expressed my thoughts exactly.

Does anyone have any comments about the other items on the list aside from shrugs? Or maybe some items that arent on the list that should be?

[skullmurdoc]

Originally Posted by VBigNate

some are bodybuilders, some are powerlifters, and some are both. Powerlifters, i would assume, would not include shrugs because their traps get hit hard enough with deadlifts. Bodybuilders on the other hand, who want the massive traps, like to do shrugs to get to get those mountain peak traps. In TRAPS case, he wants big traps and deads are not sufficient enough, so he does shrugs to build them up.

I agree with this totally. It's all good if it fits on what you want to achieve.

[RJSMuscle]

I admit I use the smith machine for squats BUT today I tried it on the rack....wow what a difference.

was a little shaky at first but I guess thats the point, using smaller muscles to balance the weight.

Now I just have to ween myself off the Smith machine for bench presses. Thats going to be tougher because I work out alone and there isn't anybody really around to spot me.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

Never roll your shoulders when shrugging. That's just stupid. There's absolutely no point to it other than to hurt your shoulders.

Never. Ever... Injury is all that will happen yet I see people doing it most of the time.

Originally Posted by Traps

These produce zero results for me with traps. As I've stated before, and this ISNT supposed turn into another discussion about shrugs. My traps are developed beyond my deadlifts or hanging cleans. I can not lift the amount of weight necessary to stimulate my traps in those exercises. Again, I think people are confusing things a little. This isnt a debate as to if the only way to stimulate trap growth is shrugs. I mearly suggested that shrugs are an execellent way to target the traps, and I dont consider them a useless exercise that people should not do.

I don't want anyone to miscontrue my point. I think too many people make shrugs they're staple for trap work. While I prefer NOT to do them (ex explosively), I think that there are much better options - face pulls and upright cable rows even (and I'd RARELY take a cable exercise over a free weight exercise, but this is one of those cases because of the angle you can set the body).

I also think too many people are in the mindset that they should "isolate themselves to death..." Gaining muscle size isn't just about hitting each and every part by itself - it's using as many muscles as possible to force the body to adapt to a new stimulus. Due to the load, deads are the IDEAL way to hit as many muscles as possible, and like it or not, standing up with a heavy weight in your hands puts an assload of stress on the trapezius. It's one of those muscle groups that is TOUGH, and can take a beating. If someone is doing heavy deads on back day, SLDL on leg day, and most other pulling exercises like bent rows and such, they're going to have excellent trap development without shrugging.

Originally Posted by GetFit

So you lift traps because you want them bigger than they need to be? What is it about traps? Why not get a giant neck? My point is that, what do big traps do for you? If they are more than you need to lift a deadlift, then what is the point? Again I don't mean to insult you in any way.

Neither here nor there, and isn't what the discussion is about. While I prefer my body to be symetrically balanced, there are plenty of people who enjoy focusing a lot of energy on one or two exploding parts.

Originally Posted by VBigNate

some are bodybuilders, some are powerlifters, and some are both. Powerlifters, i would assume, would not include shrugs because their traps get hit hard enough with deadlifts. Bodybuilders on the other hand, who want the massive traps, like to do shrugs to get to get those mountain peak traps. In TRAPS case, he wants big traps and deads are not sufficient enough, so he does shrugs to build them up.

I've mentioned this before - this is a lame point. We're talking about gaining size, and no matter what your ultimate goals are, gaining LBM is the bottom line no matter if you're doing it to get stronger or doing it to look better. Any bb'er who isn't deadlifting is cheating themselves of size gains, PERIOD.

Originally Posted by Traps

Thanks BigNate, you expressed my thoughts exactly.

Does anyone have any comments about the other items on the list aside from shrugs? Or maybe some items that arent on the list that should be?

Anyone?

Originally Posted by skullmurdoc

I agree with this totally. It's all good if it fits on what you want to achieve.

See my point to Nate. I mentioned it in my journal somewhere - for every 1 person that achieves great results on a typical "Bodybuilding" type workout, there are 1000 that get huge from powerlifting and O-weightlifting type movements. Give me clones and let one do the bb'ing and the other do the PL'ing and let's see who gains the most LBM in a year - I'll take the guy at PL'ing school 999 out of 1000 times.

Originally Posted by RJSMuscle

I admit I use the smith machine for squats BUT today I tried it on the rack....wow what a difference.

was a little shaky at first but I guess thats the point, using smaller muscles to balance the weight.

Now I just have to ween myself off the Smith machine for bench presses. Thats going to be tougher because I work out alone and there isn't anybody really around to spot me.

By doing those lifts on a machine, you're eliminating their main purpose, which is NOT to isolate a few groups. It's to recruit as many fibers as possible to FORCE the body into an anabolic state.

[TorontoMoFo]

I find that doing bentover rows and squeezing/shrugging your traps at the top of the movement hits em really hard

[RoyceDa59]

Originally Posted by TorontoMoFo

I find that doing bentover rows and squeezing/shrugging your traps at the top of the movement hits em really hard

Squeezing at the top of rows does wonders for the back. I love to hold the top of the rep on say T-bar rows for 3-5 seconds.

As far as Traps' question is concerned, I don't think Boyd missed any out, there's a lot of pointless exericises out there, but not many I can think of that are more common than what's in the first post of the thread.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by TorontoMoFo

I find that doing bentover rows and squeezing/shrugging your traps at the top of the movement hits em really hard

Bents are definitely one of my faves... I feel like I'm cheating if I don't get them in, and I do them pretty damn heavy.

[HammerTech]

Addressing the "any other exercises" thing...

I have lying leg curls in my routine right now while I get my back stronger. I tried (emphasis on tried) to do GHR's...and my lower back couldn't handle it. For some reason, my lower back especially seems to be a weak link..partly I'm sure because my DL is down and partly due to some old injuries from back in the day. Recently I've really polished my DL form and am growing there and getting my weights going...believe me, there's not one thing like taking a big old hunk of iron and hoisting it around to make you feel all beastly and sh!t, as well as add to your size. As I get stronger in my lower back, I'll try to do some of the other things rather than the curls, but for now, it's the best I've got without doing injury to myself...sigh.

[RJSMuscle]

I was always afraid to do deads, squats because of lower back problems, but since I've been here I've learned a lot and I started doing them slowly and now my back feels great.

I'm still using lighter weights to use the proper form but the weight increases with every workout. In time I'll be bragging here about 400+lb squats and deads....lol

[HammerTech]

RJS, that's what I've been doing too...starting slowly with lighter weights to polish form and etc., and I'm watching my weight grow too.

Squats never bothered me about my back, but always my knees instead. I wrap up now, and that's no longer an issue...plus the fact that I'm going ATG and depending on my muscles to do the work rather than my knees acting like a brake.