Overtraining/Recovery/Dual Factor Theory

[Traps]

Get more details about single factor theory and dual factor theory here

(i.e. overtraining doesn't happen in a day, it is mulative fatigue so doing a program for 4 weeks might be quite stimulative yet 10 weeks would kill someone). Also, overtraining is systemic - symptoms include increased reaction time, sustained decrease in performance by 10-15% or greater, sleep disruption, depression, and a bunch of other stuff. You don't get that from a few too many sets one day, that's the body's nervous system breaking down due to high levels of aculated fatigue.

So now you know that fatigue can be aculated as a result of training. Obviously the other result of training is what you are driving for strength, speed, hypertrophy - whatever. This is basically refered to as fitness. Interestingly fitness and fatigue accrue and disipate at very different rates....what is the implication? Well obviously fatigue limits your ability to accrue fitness so maybe it's worth looking at their respective rates of accrual and disipation to see if we can plan a workout program around it. This is not a new or novel concept - this is basically the way training is done for elite athletes all over the world in every sport except BBing which although massively affected by it due to the application of weight training stimulus has managed to keep itself ignorant.

Anyway, this is called fitness fatigue theory or dual factor theory. The overwhelming majority of BBing still look at the world in a single factor framework where you train and recover workout to workout making the timing critical, this model as been shot to living dog by science and has been totally supplanted by the dual factor model as single factor falls appart reliably and repeatedly under different cirstances while the dual can account for and explain the whole lot. This is what is done with theories - get a better one and junk the old one, although in the case of beginners, novices, and lower intermediate lifters the single factor style programming is considered most appropriate.

[Traps]

Get more information about going to failure here

So why go to failure? Let's say you're using a load of 70% of 1RM and the target muscles have a similar threshold for total MU recruitment and exhaustion. By reaching concentric failure, you've recruited and exhausted all FT MUs. However, beyond 80%, the load is great enough to do this to all muscles without reaching failure. Going to failure at this point is now like pushing the engine of your car to redline and not shifting gears. You're subjecting the CNS to unnecessary fatigue. You've recruited all fibers so what is your goal now? To try and further exhaust the CNS? Why?
I'll quote Zatsiorsky again: "...a trainee should “learn” to either decrease inhibitory output or enhance excitatory output from the central nervous system (CNS) while exercising and thereby gain strength. This learning is more successful if the trainee is fully recovered from the previous activity, not fatigued."
Going to failure induces greater fatigue. With heavier loads this is even more pronounced and not only interferes with rest times between sets but can have a cumulative effect that affects workout scheduling (consider many HIT trainees who train once a week). So why do it if you're using a load that recruits and exhausts all FT motor units without going to failure? What does it achieve other than induce unnecessary fatigue? The facts are all there.

[NiteHawk]

This is now the official DFT sticky thread per Trap's request. Post your information here.

[NiteHawk]

Another link to DFT..

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/train...ining-682.html

[RoyceDa59]

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/...rtraining.html

Here's a forum thread with posts from some very knowledgable people on the subject (e.g Madcow) http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ing+to+failure

[RoyceDa59]

I must say this method is very interesting, and I think I'm gonna devote Sunday to seriously researching it lol. A lot of it makes sense, especially against the way I'm training. It would be great in the near future if a number of us could commit to such training to fully experiment with it

[Traps]

Originally Posted by RoyceDa59

I must say this method is very interesting, and I think I'm gonna devote Sunday to seriously researching it lol. A lot of it makes sense, especially against the way I'm training. It would be great in the near future if a number of us could commit to such training to fully experiment with it

I have been kinda doing it(without knowing), but i'm gonna focus on learning more this weekend as well...IT is interesting isnt it....

[RoyceDa59]

Absolutely, I think I'll start (applying the principles) in a couple weeks time, next week I'll finish what I'm doing followed by a weeks rest as I do per 3 months

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

This is now the official DFT sticky thread per Trap's request. Post your information here.

Lets get more info on not just 1-factor/2-factor but overtraining, and lifting to failure....

[RoyceDa59]

One more

From Madcow's site
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...0The%20Program about his 5x5 duel factor training

[Traps]

More information on Dual-Factor taken from here

by Matt Reynolds
http://www.midwestbarbell.com

Dual Factor Training: How to Use Training Theory to Reach Your Physique and Performance Goals

Training Theory…
The very words make my spine cringe. Isn’t training theory the love child of those Russian communist scientists from Rocky 4? You know, the one where Ivan Drago is running and lifting and punching machines while pencil neck guys in glasses and lab-coats follow him around with their clipboards and occasionally give each other that leering glance of communist satisfaction. Are these the guys who do Training Theory? What about my teachers from high school anatomy class and freshman PED 100? The professors were self proclaimed "experts," even though I never saw them in gym, and most looked like starving Somalian children. Were they the great theorists of training? Well, probably not.

The fact is, having a good working knowledge of training theory isn’t just about reading texts from fallen Eastern Bloc countries. When you know why you train the way you do, you can make dramatic progress in the gym concerning your physique and performance through more efficient training. i.e. – you’ll be bigger and stronger and look better naked!
So let’s get started…

There are basically two accepted theories in the world of weight training (and outlined in Zatsiorsky’s Science and Practice of Strength Training). One is called Supercompensation (or Single Factor Theory), and the other is called Dual Factor Theory. Bodybuilding tends to follow the Supercompensation way of thinking, while virtually every field of strength and conditioning, athletics, etc. follows the Dual Factor Theory. The reasoning that almost everyone involved in strength training adheres to the Dual Factor Theory is because there is scientific proof that it works, not to mention that the Eastern Bloc countries that have adhered to this theory have killed the U.S. at every Olympics since the 1950s. In the following paragraphs, I hope to prove to you why Dual Factor Theory should be accepted, taught, and adhered to in the world of bodybuilding as well as all other athletes concerned with strength and conditioning.

The Supercompensation Theory has been, in the bodybuilding community, the most widely accepted school of thought. The theory itself is based on the fact that training depletes certain substances (like glycogen and slowing protein synthesis). Training is seen as catabolic, draining the body of its necessary nutrients and fun stuff. So to grow, according to the theory, the body must then be rested for the optimal amount of time, and, it (the body) must be supplied with all the nutrients it lost. If both of these things are done correctly, then theoretically your body will increase protein synthesis and store more nutrients than it originally had! (i.e. – your muscles will be bigger!)

So obviously the most important part of this theory is timing, specifically concerning rest periods. But that’s where the problem comes in. If the rest period is too short, then you won’t be completely recovered, and as a result, the next training session would deplete substances even more, which over a period of time would result in overtraining and a loss of performance. If the rest period is too long then the training would lose its stimulus and you would recover completely and lose the window of opportunity to provide the stimulus again. Improvements only occur when the training sessions are optimally timed. So you are left with the problem of timing workouts to correspond to the Supercompensation wave; anything sooner or later will lead to a useless workout.

A Better Way…

The Dual Factor Theory is somewhat more complex than the Supercompensation Theory. The theory is based on the fact that the body is left with both positive and negative effects from a training session. On the negative side, fatigue sets in. On the positive side, fitness (or "gain" as it’s referred in the exercise phys. world) increases. So the theory works like an equilibrium in that the effect of training is both positive (gain) and negative (fatigue). By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be great in extent, but shouldn’t last very long. Gain, on the other hand, should be moderate, but will last longer. Typically the relationship is 1:3 – if fatigue lasts x amount of time, then gain lasts 3x amount of time.
Now, granted that’s some deep, confusing stuff, but here is where the wheat is separated from the chaff…The timing of individual workouts is relatively unimportant to long term gains (unlike Supercompensation), and whether fatigue is or is not present, fitness can and still will be increased (which is the goal).
Bodybuilders often get stuck in the "one time per week per bodypart" rut, and that determines how many sets they do and the intensity they use. Since they are not going to change frequency, they end up not changing much over time. So what happens (when you view training through the lens of Supercompensation) is that you beat the crap out of a muscle group and then don’t target it again for another week. This is because you think that the muscle needs time to completely recover before beating it into submission again. Well, the fact is, that when you see training through the lens of Dual Factor Theory, then you’ll note that it is ok to train a muscle group again even if fatigue is still present.
Now the really cool part is this…science has shown that the body responds better in physique and performance enhancements when you have a period of peaking fatigue (2-6 weeks), followed by a period of "unloading" (1-4 weeks). (Unloading just refers to a time where you allow fatigue to fade. This usually means active unloading, where you continue to train, but with reduced intensity, volume, or frequency. Occasionally it could mean total rest.) You view entire weeks and maybe months, as you would’ve viewed just one workout with Supercompensation. For example, with Supercompensation, one workout represents a period of fatigue. But, in the Dual Factor Theory, up to 6 weeks would represent a period of fatigue. With Supercompensation, a day or two (up to a week) represents a period of rest. But in the Dual Factor Theory, up to four weeks may represent a period rest.
So to recap…
• Each training session exerts both positive (gain) and negative (fatigue) aspects. Instead of thinking of each training session as fatiguing and then the next 6 days as recovery, begin to think of entire periods of training as fatiguing or recovery.
• Obviously then the most important thing is to understand how long and how hard to "load" during the fatiguing phases and how long and how much to "unload" during the recovery phase.
Applying it to the real world…
When setting up dual factor periodization for the bodybuilder, it is important to remember to plan for periods of fatigue and periods of rest. During a fatigue period (say, 3 weeks), you slowly build up fatigue, and never fully recover. Then you have a period of recovery (another 1-2 weeks) where you train with reduced frequency, volume, or intensity.

Supercompensation Theory:
Supercompensation theory says to beat the crap out of our muscles and deplete them of all their good stuff (like glycogen, amino acids, creatine, etc.), let them recover for 3-10 days, and provide them with all the nutrients they lost (and then a little bit more). The result should be that the muscles will store more nutrients than they originally had, and thus will be bigger and stronger.

Result: Doesn’t really work – at least not very well. Unfortunately, it’s almost impossible to time your workouts just right, meaning that you either won’t rest long enough, which will quickly lead to overtraining, or rest too long, which means that the growth stimulus is lost, and you end up back where you started.

Dual Factor Theory (2FT):
Dual Factor theory, on the other hand, provides a better (and correct) view of training theory. Instead of looking at each single training session as fatiguing, and the few days after it as the recovery period, 2FT views entire periods of training as fatiguing or recovery. (And as I mentioned in the last article, science has shown us that the body makes extraordinary gains when provided with a period of peaking fatigue, or "loading," (2-6 weeks) followed by a period of recovery, or "unloading" (1-4 weeks).
So the most important thing about 2FT is to understand how long and how hard to "load" during the fatiguing phases and how long and how much to "unload" during the recovery phase.
Result: You can have shorter training cycles, more precisely timed peaks, and generally more progress in both physique and performance goals.

Loading and Unloading:
The first thing to remember about the program is that it is setup with periods of peaking fatigue (called "loading"), where you will slowly reach the point of over-reaching (near overtraining). In simple terms, during loading periods you will train hard and not allow yourself to fully recover before training again. By doing this, fatigue will slowly build up in your system until you approach overtraining. These loading periods should last around 2-3 weeks. It’s important to note that the program laid out will most likely be fatiguing to just about any athlete, but some may overreach in only 1-2 weeks, and for others, it might take 3 or even 4 weeks. So it’s important to note that what is loading for me might not be loading for you. In the same manner, if you follow this program and feel like you are overtrained after only a week or so, then you will need to back off a bit and find the right amount of work for you as an individual.

"How will I know how hard to load and unload?"
Well, honestly, it’s not an exact science. The easiest thing to do is to start this program and load for only one week, and follow it with a one week unloading period. If you felt fine, and never felt like you were overreaching, then try to load for 2 weeks next, followed again by a one week unloading period. If you are still fine, then you could even try loading for 3 weeks, followed again, by just one week of unloading. I would note, however, that I have found that most athletes do best with a 2 week loading period, followed by a one week unloading period. For unloading, it’s usually best if intensity is kept relatively high. (Intensity is not a perception of how hard you are working, but is a term relating to how close of a % to your rep maximum you are working – therefore, it’s important during unloading weeks to still train heavy.) However, even though intensity is kept high during unloading, volume is drastically reduced, by dropping the workouts from approx 7 exercises down to only two or three. Frequency (number of training sessions per week) is sometimes reduced, but in this program it’s kept the same.

"How will I know if I am overreaching?"
Well, again, it’s not an exact science, but you’ll feel lethargic, your joints will probably hurt, and most importantly, the amount of weight you can lift will begin to decrease. If at any time the weights you are using fall down to 85% or so of your previous best, then you are overreaching (and nearing overtraining), and it’s time to start unloading. Now, sometimes you just have a bad day in the gym, or you didn’t sleep well last night, or maybe you’ve been sick. I rarely make a decision about overreaching after just one bad workout. However, if two or three training sessions go by, and you aren’t even getting close to hitting new maxes, then it’s time to start unloading.
The goal of this program is to get to that point (or near it) after approximately two weeks of loading. The first week you’ll probably feel fine, and you’ll get in some good hard workouts. By midway through the second loading week, however, you’ll probably start feeling run down, and by the Friday or Saturday session of the second week, you’ll probably feel really run down and "beat up." When you hit that point, then it’s time to back off the volume substantially for a week or so and allow your body to recover from the two hard weeks of loading.
If done correctly, the result will be a noticeable improvement in size and strength following the unloading period. (Now, obviously you aren’t going to notice huge gains after a single three week cycle of this program, but after several cycles, you should begin noticing real differences in your strength and appearance.

[Traps]

Good information on overtraining/failure/ and effects on CNS http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...ertraining.asp

It wont let me copy the text to quote it here, but it is a very good read.

[JustAddWater]

Traps - certainly an interesting read and take on exercise theory. Since you've been reading up on this, have you found any scientific evidence to back this stuff up. I know the excerpt suggests science can back this up: that Dual Factor is better than Supercompensation, but beyond examples of the strength of Eastern Bloc atheletes, have any reputable scientific institutions/individuals done a true study?

Obviously, the science can't speak for true experience, but just curious.

[Traps]

I've been reading a little here and a little there. So far as I know its still called a theory.

However, I can speak from my own experience. Without ever hearing about dual factor theory I have been training according to its principles(I think) for the past 6 months. My memory and the charting of my bench press progress shows peaks and valleys like you would see with dual factor theory. Each subsequent peak higher than the last. Basically about this time last year is when I kinda got away from single factor and started training dual factor. My training curve the last 6 or 7 months shows peaks where I was at my strongest point. These peaks were accompanied with joint pain followed by a slight dip where I began to go back down in the amount of weight I could lift. I always consided this to be overtraining. What I have learned now is thats called overreaching. Its called overreaching because I never dropped below 10% weight of my best lift. Because I thought I was overtraining, I would step back for a couple weeks and drop total sets and even the amount of weight I was doing, and work myself back up again. Each time I worked myself back up, I would always start overreaching again, my joints would hurt and my strength would drop around 10% or less. The thing I noticed in my charting is each subsequent peak(near overreaching) was greater than the previous peak.

Here's my chart of my 1st set of benchpress over last 2 years(673 days). pay attention to the black circles. Those are points of nearly over reaching(this is not overreaching...yet). Its the slight dips where the true overreacing is occuring. The big drop down is my step back. The yellow circles are my step back points.

[JustAddWater]

So during the unloading, roughly what percentage of your 1RM did you drop, since the theory suggests that a drop in set volume could characterize a unloading period while the intensity/weight could remain fairly high relative to the loading period.

I know the graph shows the numbers, but I'm interested in your experience with what percentage drop worked best for you.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by JustAddWater

So during the unloading, roughly what percentage of your 1RM did you drop, since the theory suggests that a drop in set volume could characterize a unloading period while the intensity/weight could remain fairly high relative to the loading period.

I know the graph shows the numbers, but I'm interested in your experience with what percentage drop worked best for you.

The charting is done with no method to the madness, thats just how it worked out. At each point that I considered myself overtraining, I had probably dropped 10lbs maybe 20 at the very most on my bench. Not even close to the 10 percent mark which is suggested to be overreaching. That would have made it about 30 to 35 lbs

[Traps]

Reading your post again, I understand your question now. You want to know how much weight I dropped on my step back. Well at my most recent period of fatigue I have progressed like this:

The highlighted record shows my step back. I'd like to add my recovery starting on 9/9/06 is not up to par because of lack of sleep and not so good diet. If I can do good this weekend, I feel I'll hit personal bests at 325, and i'll jump up to 330. My current plan is not to go up in weight untill I hit 5 reps on both my sets. But with this dual factor theory running through my mind now, I might change this up when I get my creatine. (side note: the workout times are inaccurate the am's should be pm's)

[JustAddWater]

Perfect...question now answered.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by JustAddWater

Perfect...question now answered.

I would love to get more discussion/debate going on about 1x/2x, overtraining, CNS, reps to failure, etc from people with informed knowledge on these subjects. In my opinion these are the most important factors in determining progression and growth(aside from diet of course)

I'm still trying to learn this stuff so if you know it, then post it.

[Chewie]

So with this, do we pretty much do a full body workout 3x per week? Or can it be done in a 2 days split 2x per week? I don't exactly know how to structure a split with this theory (i.e. how many exercises per body part etc)...How does this look?

Monday/Thursday (Upperbody)
Flat BB Bench
Incline DB Bench
Deadlifts
Pullups

Tuesday/Friday (Lowerbody/Delts)
Squats
Stiff Legged Deads
DB Military Press
Lateral Raises

Wednesday (Off/Cardio)

I'm also curious about where to throw in bi/tri exercises...maybe I can do that on the wednesday? Also, should I be doing the same exercises twice per week, or should I mix it up (e.g. monday do flat bb and flies, and thursday do incline db and dips?)