Overtraining/Recovery/Dual Factor Theory - Page 3 - BodybuildingForYou

FortifiedIron · #41 (**permalink**) 10-18-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclesntx

It's all I'm doing - living the easy life!

Very cool.. wish mine was that easy lol

Kc

musclesntx · #42 (**permalink**) 10-18-2006, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortifiedIron

Very cool.. wish mine was that easy lol

Kc

Head to San Antone and let's open a big ass studio - plenty of people to choose from. I have to farm clients out to other trainers because there's simply not enough of my time to go around. The more I raise rates, the more they come. It's kind of sick.

The routine you just posted is similar to one I built/used with great success. For another routine to be added to this thread (which is one of the better ones here), I'll track it down and throw it up.

FortifiedIron · #43 (**permalink**) 10-18-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclesntx

Head to San Antone and let's open a big ass studio - plenty of people to choose from. I have to farm clients out to other trainers because there's simply not enough of my time to go around. The more I raise rates, the more they come. It's kind of sick.

The routine you just posted is similar to one I built/used with great success. For another routine to be added to this thread (which is one of the better ones here), I'll track it down and throw it up.

Awsome.. lets see it

Id love to move down to SA, but sadly I'm not even in Texas anymore.

I'm in Va. right now and will probably end up here for a good while. I'm about to open up a private gym here aswell. Two other friends of mine just worked out RKM Training Solutions, which will be based on performance development. We will be launching a magazine soon and doing alot of sports conditioning stuff. Actually here waiting on the phone call today from IWFitness on setting everything up.

Life is stressful, a pain in the ass, but damn if it isnt FUN!

When we get everything set up, I'll let you know.

Kc

VBigNate · #44 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 07:15 PM

soo with the DFT i would train a bodypart again before it was fully recovered and keep doing this till I overreached? and once i overreach, what do i do i didnt understand the unloading phase fully...

FortifiedIron · #45 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBigNate

soo with the DFT i would train a bodypart again before it was fully recovered and keep doing this till I overreached? and once i overreach, what do i do i didnt understand the unloading phase fully...

Its not training before you are rully recovered, the muscle is already fully recovered or recovered enough it can be trained again.

Overreaching is more so a phase for the nervous system, overreaching really doesnt have much justic and is not favorable for planning for bodybuilding.

The Fitness Fatigue Model simply states that as you increase a state of fitness you accumlate fatigue, over time there will be enough accumlation that you need rest.

Kc

VBigNate · #46 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 07:27 PM

that just confused the hell outta me, can you explain more in detail please?

Traps · #47 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBigNate

soo with the DFT i would train a bodypart again before it was fully recovered and keep doing this till I overreached? and once i overreach, what do i do i didnt understand the unloading phase fully...

when you overreach, you cut back on volume. During this period you allow fatigue to go away leaving only the fitness you have gained during the loading phase.

Just understand that according to theory fitness will last 3 times as long as fatigue

FortifiedIron · #48 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBigNate

that just confused the hell outta me, can you explain more in detail please?

Like what?

Kc

Traps · #49 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortifiedIron

Its not training before you are rully recovered, the muscle is already fully recovered or recovered enough it can be trained again.

Overreaching is more so a phase for the nervous system, overreaching really doesnt have much justic and is not favorable for planning for bodybuilding.

The Fitness Fatigue Model simply states that as you increase a state of fitness you accumlate fatigue, over time there will be enough accumlation that you need rest.

Kc

Yeah its hard to actually overtrain the muscle. The CNS is the weak link. Why is it not favorable for bodybuilding?

Traps · #50 (**permalink**) 10-31-2006, 10:00 PM

Heres a good thread that discuss more training theory.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/train...eory-8500.html

FortifiedIron · #51 (**permalink**) 11-01-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps

Yeah its hard to actually overtrain the muscle. The CNS is the weak link. Why is it not favorable for bodybuilding?

Because in bodybuilding your not training to peak. I guess in lay terms you do utilize overreaching in bodybuilding.

Check out the Periodization articles Matt and I wrote for Mind N Muscle Magazine. We discussed the utilization of a heavy load to result in a quicker accumlation of fatigue.

The more volume a bodybuilder can sustain over a longer period of time has a better benefit than short periods of loading or applying any method of bloc or wave periodization.

I think if a bodybuilder can manage 10-14 wks of moderate to heavy volume in that time frame, followed by a complete time of rest (deconditioning) they will see great gains.

Kc

VBigNate · #52 (**permalink**) 11-01-2006, 10:50 PM

ok well i do everything only once a week...except i do tricep on sat and wed, and bicep on thurs and mon..

monday-legs
tuesday-shoulders
wednesday-run
thursday-back and bi's
friday-run
saturday-chest and tri's
sunday-off

what should i change my routine to be to benefit from this theory?

Traps · #53 (**permalink**) 11-01-2006, 10:57 PM

I dont know other than work your ass off. Increase volume. Training a muscle twice a week may help. Here's my routine

Day 1 - Chest/shoulders/tri's
Day 2 - Quads/hamstrings
Day 3 - Back/bi's/forearms
Day 4 - OFF
REPEAT

You obviously have cardio which is something I know nothing about

Until you learn more, just KISS it. (Keep It Simple Stupid).....Increase volume for fatigue(load) phase, and drop volume during fitness(deload) phase. Maintain intensity throughout(keep the weight heavy).

VBigNate · #54 (**permalink**) 11-02-2006, 11:20 AM

well my lifts have been increasing at a steday pace with my new routine so im gonna keep it going till it slows down then change it up and hit it harder than ever so i dont hit a plateau

Will100 · #55 (**permalink**) 11-15-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traps

I guess....well i've quoted 1 study, and a link to a thread that quoted about 4 other studies...

All repeated failure will do is overtrain your CNS, teach your muscles they cant lift, and cause you to lose gains or at best keep your gains to a minimal.

Look at a high jumper. Bear in mind I know nothing of the sport so take what I say here with a grain of salt. But if he practices trying to jump over a bar 20 feet in the air and fails all the time, he'll never make it. However if he practices lower and successfully hits his goal and raises the bar a little each time, always hitting goal, his body will adapt and learn what forces/balance/angles are neccessary to be successfull.

i go to failure and have my spotter take the little bit i need in order to succesfully perform the lift...best of both worlds...trains the muscles for strength, and for general success of the motor function

FortifiedIron · #56 (**permalink**) 11-27-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will100

i go to failure and have my spotter take the little bit i need in order to succesfully perform the lift...best of both worlds...trains the muscles for strength, and for general success of the motor function

There is no success in that, you are hurting your motor function.

Kc

Weee · #57 (**permalink**) 11-28-2006, 05:24 PM

Well I've been reading up on some of the info, based on my workout frequency and current strength levels I don't think I'm to the point where fatigue is really limiting me, but at least I have the concept in my mind for later.

Since I don't have a spotter training to failure isn't really an option for me on BB bench press, and I don't generally aim for failure on other exercises either out of habit

FortifiedIron · #58 (**permalink**) 11-28-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weee

Well I've been reading up on some of the info, based on my workout frequency and current strength levels I don't think I'm to the point where fatigue is really limiting me, but at least I have the concept in my mind for later.

Since I don't have a spotter training to failure isn't really an option for me on BB bench press, and I don't generally aim for failure on other exercises either out of habit

Failure isnt anything but a training tool and one that shouldnt be used often due to the high impact it has on the nervous system. So if you dont train to failure often, good its probably not needed for most people.

Kc