Overtraining/Recovery/Dual Factor Theory

[Traps]

It doesnt really matter how you split the exercises up.

dual factor is defined as 1 part fatigue/1 part fitness. Fitness lasts 3 times as long as fatigue, so as a rule of thumb you'll be placing your body in a state of fatigue for 2 to 3 weeks, and a state of fitness for 1 to 2. During the fatigue phase your goal for the cycle is reach a point of over reaching, which can be defined as a 10% decrease in performance. At this point you switch to fitness, cutting back on sets or frequency, perhaps even a little on weight for 1 to 2 weeks.

This theory can be applied to any physical activity, it is not about a specific split or # of sets or reps.

Originally Posted by Traps

Think of it like this....Instead of your workout days being days you tear down your muscles, and your off days being days you recover. You will have periods of 2 to 3 weeks where you tear down your muscles, and then 1 to 2 weeks of recovery.

[NiteHawk]

One thing I would like to add about training to failure is near the end of a set you are starting to reach the fast-twitch fibers of the muscle and these have the most potential for growth. So stopping before failure you only reach a few of these fibers. This is a reason that going to failure training is beneficial.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

One thing I would like to add about training to failure is near the end of a set you are starting to reach the fast-twitch fibers of the muscle and these have the most potential for growth. So stopping before failure you only reach a few of these fibers. This is a reason that going to failure training is beneficial.

Sorry, I disagree with this statement. It only takes 80%-85% to recruit all fibers. I'm not sure where your getting your information from, please post links...Here is one about fiber recruitment. I've already linked to it in the 2nd post of this thread.

http://www.drdarden.com/readTopic.do?id=394848

I would like to add though. Training to failure does serve a purpose. I'm not saying NEVER train to failure, but rather dont train to failure every set.

[Traps]

Experiments were designed to assess the relative contribution of rate coding and motor unit recruitment to force production in two muscles of different fiber composition and function. Single motor unit action potentials were recorded during steady isometric contraction in biceps brachii, a large proximal limb muscle of mixed fiber composition, and adductor pollicis, a small hand muscle comprised mainly of type I muscle fibers. Action potential spike trains were obtained over the entire force range in each muscle. The results suggest that these two muscles are controlled in different ways. In biceps brachii, recruitment was observed from 0 to 88% maximum voluntary contraction (MVC). In adductor pollicis, no motor unit was observed to be recruited at forces greater than 50% MVC, with the majority of recruitment occurring below 30% MVC. On the average, motor units in adductor pollicis discharged at higher rates, with less regularity, and with a greater frequency of occurrence of short interspike intervals (intervals less than or equal to 20 msec) than those in biceps brachii. Such findings suggest that rate coding plays a more prominent role in force modulation in adductor pollicis, while recruitment plays a more important role throughout the contractile force range in biceps brachii.

PMID: 7260629 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

What does this tell us? This experiment shows that biceps reach MVC(maximal voluntary contraction) at 88%. The biceps force output is mostly determined by fiber recruitment, whereas the hands force output is based more on firing rate.

[NiteHawk]

This information came from an article written by John Hansen or Steve Holman I believe from Ironman magazine. I will have to do some more research on that article when Im at home. Im at work now and I dont have access to that information.


Again, it shows that a person shouldnt take 1 study and base everything on it because there are always other studies refuting that study.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

This information came from an article written by John Hansen or Steve Holman I believe from Ironman magazine. I will have to do some more research on that article when Im at home. Im at work now and I dont have access to that information.


Again, it shows that a person shouldnt take 1 study and base everything on it because there are always other studies refuting that study.

I guess....well i've quoted 1 study, and a link to a thread that quoted about 4 other studies...

All repeated failure will do is overtrain your CNS, teach your muscles they cant lift, and cause you to lose gains or at best keep your gains to a minimal.

Look at a high jumper. Bear in mind I know nothing of the sport so take what I say here with a grain of salt. But if he practices trying to jump over a bar 20 feet in the air and fails all the time, he'll never make it. However if he practices lower and successfully hits his goal and raises the bar a little each time, always hitting goal, his body will adapt and learn what forces/balance/angles are neccessary to be successfull.

[Traps]

If your like me, after you get done working out, you mix up a protein shake, and throw in some dextrose or other highly glycemic carbohydrate, and chug it down never really stopping to think exactly what it is your doing, and why your doing it. Yeah, yeah, we've all heard protein is needed to build muscle, so why the sugar? Well we've also probably heard the sugar is to replenish our glycogen stores. Yeah, both are true and good reasons to drink it in and of itself. However in some research I ran accross theres more to the post workout sugar/insulin spike.

I found an interesting article by Dr. John M Berardi, Ph.D. that explains the importance of insulin in protein synthesis and protein breakdown. Apparently insulin plays a large synergestic role when combined with luecine and a proper balance of amino acids in stimulating protein synthesis and preventing protein breakdown.

The article mentions TONS of great points, like combining protein with carbohydrates will produce a greater insulin response then carbohydrates alone. This is important for all those that take creatine monohydrate. He also mentions the protein carbohydrate ratio to take post workout, 0.8g of carbohydrate and 0.4 g of protein / kg of body weight. He also explains why taking too much protein is bad.....

a very high protein meal can actually cause a release of glucagon. Glucagon is a hormone that antagonizes insulin release. So if you eat some protein with carbs, insulin shoots up. If you eat too much protein with carbs, the insulin release may actually be lower. And if this weren't bad enough, glucagon also has another function that we want to avoid. The darn stuff causes the body to convert amino acids into glucose (a process called gluconeogenesis). So take in too much protein and say goodbye to that special amino acid ratio. Instead those aminos become carbs!

I could go on and on, but I'll finish with one last thing. I find this the most intersting of all. He explains how the addition of leucine can increase post workout protein synthesis. If you've been reading around in these forums, i'm sure you've seen me rant a few times about leucine and perhaps even read the study I posted about it. Well, because its a great study and is a major component of this article I'll post it again. First I'll post a teaser about leucine from the article i've been discussing, afterwards will be a synopsis of the actual leucine study.

The results of this study and others have lead researchers to believe that within the muscle cell, there's one particular regulatory pathway for protein synthesis that's stimulated by insulin, but dependent on leucine (27). If insulin is present and leucine isn't, then protein synthesis can't maximally be stimulated. If leucine is present and insulin isn't, protein synthesis can't be maximally stimulated. But give 'em both and look out!

Leucine Study

The present study was designed to determine postexercise muscle protein synthesis and whole body protein balance following the combined ingestion of carbohydrate with or without protein and/or free leucine. Eight male subjects were randomly assigned to three trials in which they consumed drinks containing either carbohydrate (CHO), carbohydrate and protein (CHO+PRO), or carbohydrate, protein, and free leucine (CHO+PRO+Leu) following 45 min of resistance exercise. A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-13C6]phenylalanine was applied, with blood samples and muscle biopsies collected to assess fractional synthetic rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle as well as whole body protein turnover during 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin response was higher in the CHO+PRO+Leu compared with the CHO and CHO+PRO trials (+240 +/- 19% and +77 +/- 11%, respectively, P < 0.05). Whole body protein breakdown rates were lower, and whole body protein synthesis rates were higher, in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials compared with the CHO trial (P < 0.05). Addition of leucine in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial resulted in a lower protein oxidation rate compared with the CHO+PRO trial. Protein balance was negative during recovery in the CHO trial but positive in the CHO+PRO and CHO+PRO+Leu trials. In the CHO+PRO+Leu trial, whole body net protein balance was significantly greater compared with values observed in the CHO+PRO and CHO trials (P < 0.05). Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of postexercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h). We conclude that coingestion of protein and leucine stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole body protein balance compared with the intake of carbohydrate only.

PMID: 15562251 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Linc]

Originally Posted by Traps

More information on Dual-Factor taken from here

by Matt Reynolds
http://www.midwestbarbell.com

Dual Factor Training: How to Use Training Theory to Reach Your Physique and Performance Goals

Here's the same information, but I found it to be a little more eye friendly I guess you could say.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core_feb_6.htm

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

This is my 2nd week on the DFT routine and I can say I have noticed some gains. And when I can notice this quick myself, its good.

Well hopefully the gains will diminish and regress, because the real gains are supposed to come during the deload phase. Remember....Your supposed to overreach on dft....

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by Traps

Well hopefully the gains will diminish and regress, because the real gains are supposed to come during the deload phase. Remember....Your supposed to overreach on dft....

If I gain more weight during my deloading week next week, I will be estatic. I can already see a difference in my physique.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

If I gain more weight during my deloading week next week, I will be estatic. I can already see a difference in my physique.

Thats great, but to really test dft, you need to become cached. If your still getting stronger from workout to workout I would postpone deloading. Basically start deload at no more then a 10% decrease in performance(and thats alot) I'd say around a 5% drop would be better.

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by Traps

Thats great, but to really test dft, you need to become cached. If your still getting stronger from workout to workout I would postpone deloading. Basically start deload at no more then a 10% decrease in performance(and thats alot) I'd say around a 5% drop would be better.

I noticed I went heavier on certain upper body lifts but my reps were down. But my lower body is increasing very well.

This is my 2nd week. They say to load for 2-3 weeks so I may go 1 more week and then do my deload week.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

I noticed I went heavier on certain upper body lifts but my reps were down. But my lower body is increasing very well.

This is my 2nd week. They say to load for 2-3 weeks so I may go 1 more week and then do my deload week.

Well yeah I guess your right....DFT states fitness lasts 3 times as long as fatigue....so during the deload you are getting rid of the fatigue to reveal the fitness.....I'd still stay on deload until you no longer make progress.

[NiteHawk]

I only plan on deloading for 1 week and back to overreaching next week.

[FortifiedIron]

Was orginally published in Mind N Muscle Magazine.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...0&artID=999256
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...3&artID=999293
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindand...6&artID=999316

I think people need to understand that difference between strength training and hypertrophy training when discussing these topics.

Its a more favorable approach to a bodybuilder to go into a state of deconditioning rather than a state of unloading, as you would in strength training.

Mark Rippeteo sent me his book that is suppose to come out soon about 3 weeks ago called Practical Programming. I finished it the other day and Its a damn good read and well worth the little amount of money to buy it. Goes into great detail on overtraining and muscle/neural adaption.

Btw.. This is my type of topic. Id be more than happy to post my updated version of Hypertrophy Training and some other notes i've gathered over the years.

Kc

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by FortifiedIron

Btw.. This is my type of topic. Id be more than happy to post my updated version of Hypertrophy Training and some other notes i've gathered over the years.

Kc

I've seen much of his HT work and I found it enjoyable. Throw it up here, Kc - they'll enjoy it.

[BiggerGuns=LongerDrives]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I've seen much of his HT work and I found it enjoyable. Throw it up here, Kc - they'll enjoy it.

I second that notion, I'd like to review it myself

[FortifiedIron]

I figured it was time for another routine of mine. Just about all the routines I've published so far I've gotten nothing but great feedback on and people have been doing nothing but make very positive gains out of it. Like all my programs its basic progression with loading and maintaining the total work being done. You will need a fairly good work capacity, meaning you'll need some training time under your belt.

Upper Day 1:
Bench Press**
Pendlay Row**
Military Press
Cable or Band pull downs
Decline sit-ups

Lower Day 1:
Conventional Deadlifts**
Leg Press
Goodmornings
Barbell shrugs

Upper Day 2:
DB Bench**
T-bar Rows
Plate Raise (or Face pulls w/ bands)
Weighted Pull ups

Lower Day 2:
Squat**
Stiff Leg Deadlifts**
Reverse Hypers
Dumbell Shrugs

* I will leave the arm work up to you. However dont spend all that much energy on them, just 3-4 sets a week is all you need. They get plenty of work with the rowing and other movements.

** Primary movers, your major lifts that need to be payed attention too.

Now the training sets/reps/load are gunna be a bit different with this. Its not going to be your basic 5x5 or 3x5.. In-fact it wont even be in the ball park like that... PAY ATTENTION!

Primary Movers:
1.) 5x3
2.) 5x3
3.) 5x3
4.) 4x6
5.) 4x6
6.) 5x5
7.) 5x5
8.) 5x5
9.) 0ff

Get a projected 3RM of all your Primary Movers (*). Once you get your projected maxes at the END of th week calculate 78.5%.

- Example: 3 RM on Squat is 315. Take 315 x .785 =247 (250)

Now after the first week you will start working your Primary Movers at 78.5% @ 3RM. Once you complete the first week continue adding 2.5-5% to the 78.5%.

- Example:
Week 1 I did 250 (78.5%) on the squat.
Week 2 I will do 80-82.5% of my best 3RM.
Week 3 I will do 82.5-85% of my best 3RM.

Weeks 4 and 5 are what I call high rep weeks. Yup I said it.. HIGH REPS. You will do 4 sets of 6 with the same weight on all 4 sets. Use your judgment on the weights, but keep them fairly challenging.

You will do the SAME thing for week 6-8 as you did with week 1-3. However during this week you will be working with a 5RM and NOT a 3RM.

The other lifts that arnt Primary Movers are done like this:

1.) 3x12
2.) 3x12
3.) 3x8
4.) 3x8
5.) 3x6
6.) 3x6
7.) 4x6
8.) 4x6
9.) 0ff

The thing with these lifts are going to be rest periods. Keep the rest around 60-120 seconds between each set. Now between each movement thats your choice however dont go talk to all the girls for 20 minutes and then come back and pick it back up. If you hit failure on a set you simply just hit failure and its not a big deal.

[FortifiedIron]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I've seen much of his HT work and I found it enjoyable. Throw it up here, Kc - they'll enjoy it.

Thanks bud.. You still working in the PT field?

Kc

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by FortifiedIron

Thanks bud.. You still working in the PT field?

Kc

It's all I'm doing - living the easy life!