soy protein and whye protein

[paolo]

there a big diffrence between soya protein and whye protein? coz at the moment im forced to hit the back up protien (cheap soya) while i wait for the postman to pull his finger out and deliver my usual MET RX whey. ???

[Andre]

I read soy promotes estrogen production but I don't have any references to go by. Either way when you get the whey switch, excellent amino acid profile.

[paolo]

hmmmm estrogen dont wont that
yer iv allways used whey, have done for years. but sometimes when i order some more i dosnt arrive when i wont it to so i have to use my back up protein, soya.

[Andre]

Better than nothing, besides I doubt that using soy protein is going to make you grow t!tt!es and cause your sack to shrivel.

[paolo]

lol! well yer id like bigger tits but not those kind of tits.

[dannyboy9]

Soy and whey protein each have their place and play their individual roles. Either way, they are both equally effective for building muscle. I wouldn't refer to soy protein as a "back up protein" because the daily consumption of soy is going to do nothing but provide you with a wide spectrum of benefits. Soy has been deemed with many abilities such as regulating hormonal balance, promoting heart, breast, and prostate health by providing protection against oxidation damage. The short and long-term health benefits are removed when soy protein products are alcohol-processed, which removes the isoflavones which are the key to extracting the benefits of soy. Not all soy is created the same and again, like anything else, you get what you pay for. Seeing how you resort to cheap soy protein, you'll probably get corresponding results.

In any case and all rumors and wives' tales aside, soy is not detrimental to men as the ignorant and the dairy industry would like you to believe. Always make sure you get your hands on a Non-GMO soy protein product when deciding to use a soy protein supplement. I haven't read up much on the effects of genetically modified products but I do know this: the body was created perfect. When we eat, the body knows exactly what to do with our food provided that the body is able to recognize what it is we're putting in it. When you start genetically modifying things, adding artificial ingredients, preservatives, etc. the effects that might be offset in the body can only be imagined so I wouldn't doubt that things could get weird if you were to start consuming GMO soy - "man boobies" and all as some like to call it. The bodies of men and women are structured completely different from the inside out - especially the inside. Our chemistries are not alike whatsoever so the effects that soy is going to have on a man as opposed to woman is definitely going to be different. Among the many benefits of soy, one is concerning menopausal women in which soy protein helps them experience a smoother transitional period. Concerning the positive effects soy protein has on men and their prostate health.

Two different effects for different sexes. The body knows what to do with the food you put into it and it's not going to make you grow breasts or an extra arm unless you put something foreign in it.

Soy protein has been widely and extensively studied and is still being studied as we speak and the information I provided regarding the benefits of soy do not pertain to all soy protein supplements. I am only referring to Shaklee's Energizing Soy Protein and the studies I was speaking of (which I am providing you with below) are exclusively with Shaklee's soy protein. You're playing Russian Roulette if you go with any other company unless they can provide you with some information on their product along with published studies and such.

1. Nutrition Report 1999–2000, United Soybean Board.
2. Anderson, JW, Johnstone, BM, Cook-Newell, ME. Meta-Analysis of the
effects of soy protein intake on serum lipids. New England Journal of
Medicine 1995; 333:276–282.
3. Kanazawa,T,Osanai,T et al. Protective effects of soy protein on the
peroxidizability of lipoproteins in cerebrovascular diseases. Journal of
Nutrition 1995; 125:639S-646S.
4. Nestel, PJ,Yama****a,T, Sasahara,T et al. Soy isoflavones improve
systemic arterial compliance but not plasma lipids in menopausal and
perimenopausal women. Arteriosclerosis,Thrombosis and Vascular
Biology 1997; 1;7:3392–3398.
5. Abelow, BJ, Holford,TR, Insogna, KL. Cross-cultural association between
dietary animal protein and hip fracture: hypothesis. Calciferous Tissue
International. 1992; 50:14 –18.
6. Breslau NA et al. Relationship of animal protein-rich diet to kidney
stone formation and calcium metabolism. Journal of Clinical
Endocrinology and Metabolism 1988; 66:140–146.
7. Highlights of the Third International Symposium on the Role of Soy in
Preventing and Treating Chronic Disease – 1999. The Soy
Connection,Vol. 8, #2, Spring 2000.
8. Jacobsen BK et al. Does high soy milk intake reduce prostate cancer
incidence? The Adventist Health Study (United States). Cancer Causes
and Control 1998; 9:553–557.
9. Shu XO et al. Adolescent soy food intake and other dietary habits
and breast cancer risk. Proceedings of the American Association for
Cancer Research 2000; 41: (abs 602) 94.
10.Wei, H et al. Inhibition of tumor promoter-induced hydrogen
peroxide formation in vitro and in vivo by genistein. Nutrition and
Cancer 1993; 20:1-12.
11.Lock, M. Menopause in cultural context. Experimental Gerontology.
1994; 29(3–4):307–317.
12.Knight, DC, Eden, JA. A review of the clinical effects of phytoestrogens.
Obstetrics and Gynecology. 1996; 87:897–904.

[Andre]

Great post Danny, very informative.

[paolo]

dannyboy knows his stuff, thats wot we like to see

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by paolo

dannyboy knows his stuff, thats wot we like to see

Reading and pasting studies isnt exactly knowing "your stuff".

Both are good proteins, however, I prefer whey due to a higher concentration of BCAA's and faster absorption.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by NiteHawk

Reading and pasting studies isnt exactly knowing "your stuff".

Both are good proteins, however, I prefer whey due to a higher concentration of BCAA's and faster absorption.

I like his subtle advertising...

[dannyboy9]

What I love is how Nite always has something to say when the topic of conversation is me.
Kind of like my ex-girlfriends.

Moral of the story?: If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

BTW Boyd, there's nothing subtle about what I do. Sorry if it came across like that

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by dannyboy9

What I love is how Nite always has something to say when the topic of conversation is me.
Kind of like my ex-girlfriends.

Moral of the story?: If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

BTW Boyd, there's nothing subtle about what I do. Sorry if it came across like that

No, its nothing personal but I get tired of hearing about how you rave about shaklee all the time while you copy and paste studies. Of course they are going to say they are the best. Its business, not to mention a MLM business which those products are all over priced, not opinion but fact. Just compare thier prices with what you can get at a store, much higher. Trust me, Ive seen a lot of those companies products...Scamway, oops, I mean Amway, shaklee, Melaluca, USANA, new image, and many more. All overpriced.

I dont dislike you danny, I dont dislike anyone but I dont take much creedance when studies are copied from 1 company all the time. I have been at this game a long time. I bodybuild, not just talk about it. I have tried numerous products so my experience has taught me a lot plus I also read studies, talked with others and not just here about results they have had on products, peer reviews, etc. so I do know a thing or two when it comes to this stuff.

This whey and soy debate has been discussed numerous of times. I should just try and find them all and merge them into one. I just think you put soy on too high of a pedastal.

[dannyboy9]

Ahh...so your true colors have shown. It seems you've been having this buildup for quite some time now. I'm glad you finally got it off your chest my friend.

First of all, this ridiculous issue of "The People vs. Shaklee" has been discussed on many occasions - frankly, too many times to not be considered anything but beating a dead horse. I don't "rave" about Shaklee, I share. You're a grown man and it's not a good look for a grown man to always be sneaking in subtle and pesky remarks about everything. If you have something on your mind, just say it up front. This has been going on for quite some time now in which I attempt to contribute to a thread and you have something slick to say. You try to pass it off as a little joke by adding smiley faces or what not and I don't ever take such posts as damaging or hurtful because well....I don't know you so I don't care about you.

I read your posts and I try to brush it off as if we're joking but many times, it's very tempting to let you have a piece of the dark side but you know what? I refrain because you're my elder and I'm not trying step over boundaries here but everything has a limit. Even Jehovah God himself at one point says, "Enough is enough."

Let's not turn this into a bigger situation than it's already gotten to. I'm going to tell you what I've told everyone else that "raves" about me "raving about Shaklee": if you don't like it, you can do one of many things:

1- Ignore my posts
2- Leave the board
3- Take proper action (if TOS is being violated)
4- Deal with it

Obviously, you can't commit to the first option and the second option is a bit extreme and unrealistic. The third is not very realistic either because I haven't violated any part of the TOS. If I have, I would really appreciate it I could receive that infraction already so I realize my mistake and move on with my life. It's also very clear that you're having a hard time dealing with option number four as well so in the end, I honestly don't know what to tell you. From what I understand, no other company I'm aware says they are the best and if they did - they would have nothing to back it up except the ridiculous amount of money they spend on marketing/advertising. I copy and paste studies because they're there. If the products you've taken or are currently taking actually had published studies backing up their efficacy, I can guarantee you that you would be posting them up as well because frankly -again, beating a dead horse- that's the only thing that you would have to exemplify a product's effectiveness and nutritional authenticity - that and bloodwork.

MLM means nothing except that it gives people the opportunity to own their own business, free themselves from the traditional, not to mention stressful 9-5 jobs therefore opening up many other doors of freedom and enjoyment. It also beats having to run alongside the cheesy marketing most companies succumb themselves to. If they spent less of their funds on marketing and advertising and ultimately, more money on R&D then maybe Shaklee wouldn't be one of the few companies in the industry that has published studies on their product(s) and that isn't a fly by night company with more to back up than "Yeah, we're a high quality and we're not like other supplements. We put the utmost emphasis in created the best products...etc...blah blah blah."

Yeah, yeah, hush up and prove to me that your products do what you claim they do Mr. Company Rep. You obviously seem to have a very steep issue with finances because you continue to bring up the price issue. That's a shame because you would think that someone with your supposed wisdom and experience would know that you get what you pay for and to think that 10 lbs of whey for 20 dollars is a great thing is nothing but utterly ridiculous.

So you've tried numerous products but yet you've never tried one Shaklee product considering that there has and always will be a money back guarantee - your input or feedback on anything relating to Shaklee product's efficacy is not only invalid but untruthful as well. I hope the answer to the following is not but have you ever tried a MuscleTech product? I wouldn't be able to help myself to doing anything but laughing out of pity if you've tried a MT product but not a Shaklee. Go figure. Peer reviews? What should I or anyone else with their best interest in mind care about "peer reviews"? We all know how unreliable those are. You would think that "experience" does teach a lot but if you take a look at the history of mankind, we're still falling into the same basic traps and committing the same errors we were 2000 years ago - in any case, things are only getting worse. So experience? That word is overrated and overused by all the wrong people.


The whey and soy debate has been discussed numerous times but I don't know why you brought that evident fact up. If anything, it would be sensible to take that up with OP of the thread, not me. Merging all the threads might be a good idea. I doubt it'll decrease any future incidences of people asking about soy but then again, some things never change. I'm sorry you feel that I put soy on "too high of a pedestal for your liking but I'm also sorry that I don't fall in line and take all the supplements you would like me to believe are just as good as what I have to offer. I'm not a "soy advocate" or anything, I give soy what is owed to soy as far as benefits and such go. I do the same for whey, the same for egg and the same for all other sorts of protein that have been and might be discussed. I'm sure feelings of all these proteins are in tact and have not been hurt by any of my posts. I would really appreciate if we...if you could let this go.

There's not even a need for you to respond to my post. You've said what you've had to say in as many different ways that's possible and on numerous occasions. You're not going to be doing anything but repeating yourself and I really can't provide you with many more rebuttals that wouldn't involve me committing myself to repetition as well so let's both of us, take one for the team and the board and just let the poor horse rest, ha?

[Andre]

An alternate take on soy....

WorldNetDaily: Soy is making kids 'gay'

[yaboyjjones]

Dannyboy just knows how to google.

[paolo]

lol allright ladys calm it down. this is my thread, and i wont torerate heir pulling

[Andre]

It's gotta be that soy....

[paolo]

lol yer all the estrogens playing havok on there love life

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by paolo

lol yer all the estrogens playing havok on there love life

Watch it paolo, Im still a moderator....