CEE and Kre-Alk DEBUNKED

[NPayette]

this was posted in the science article section but i figured everyone should see it

Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (CreapureÒ). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37± 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Kre-alkalyn® supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn® (KA) a “Buffered” creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (CreapureÒ). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37± 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

[HammerTech]

But how does the science explain the physical results that people have with the Kre-Alkyn and CEE?

I just started Kre-Alkyn last night (Sci-Fit's version), so it'll be my own little experiment I guess to see what results I get.

[NPayette]

Originally Posted by HammerTech

But how does the science explain the physical results that people have with the Kre-Alkyn and CEE?

I just started Kre-Alkyn last night (Sci-Fit's version), so it'll be my own little experiment I guess to see what results I get.

People are experiencing the same or less then with real Creatine!
It's not saying it's complete ****, just saying it's not as effective.

[HammerTech]

Well, supps are hype to begin with as we know....lol...

[BiggerGuns=LongerDrives]

LOL which explains why they say there less bloat!!!

I am one of the few here who has preferred to stay with monohydrate all this time.

Traps
Nitehawk
JLozan
Myself

MONO = KING OF ALL CREATINE

[Keyhole]

I did a bottle of Kre-Alk recently and had great gains. I'm going to try mono this time around and compare my results.

What brand of mono are you using BGLD?

[joemomma]

I had good results with my past cycle of Scifit Kre-Alk, but I've also had good results with plain CM. I guess I'm a good responder to either. With this info, I'll be trying plain CM the next go.

[NiteHawk]

Originally Posted by BiggerGuns=LongerDrives

LOL which explains why they say there less bloat!!!

I am one of the few here who has preferred to stay with monohydrate all this time.

Traps
Nitehawk
JLozan
Myself

MONO = KING OF ALL CREATINE

Amen Tommy, I went back. Nothing like good ol' regular creatine..

[BiggerGuns=LongerDrives]

Originally Posted by Keyhole

I did a bottle of Kre-Alk recently and had great gains. I'm going to try mono this time around and compare my results.

What brand of mono are you using BGLD?

I use whatever is the best deal LOL

I actually buy this brand alot.
I get like 2 month supply for like $15...cheap

[ShortBucRising]

I just started a bulk cee, primaforce. I haven't used mono for almost 2 years and I stopped using creatine almost a year ago altogether. I'll try mono again when I'm done and see what happens.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by BiggerGuns=LongerDrives

I use whatever is the best deal LOL

I actually buy this brand alot.
I get like 2 month supply for like $15...cheap

creapure! good stuff...........cant go wrong. I use ISS Research, which also sources creapure mono

oh and one more thing..................... I WANT POSITIVE REP FROM EVERYONE WHO ARGUED/DEBATED WITH ME ABOUT CEE/KRE-ALK, AND ALL THE OTHER CREATINES OUT THERE (cough...... nitehawk.........)

+1 for Pimp Payette

[hrpiii]

I use CEE. CM upsets my stomach, CEE does not.

[jlozan84]

I am taking Kre-Ex right now and love the stuff. Last time I took creatine was back in college, so only thing available was mono. Always been kinda old school, so I thought this stuff was mostly hype.

However, I can saw that I know several people in real life (not message board bs) that have tried both recently (mono vs. kre) and swear by kre-alk. Most of these people I have trained with and can also tell the difference.

My opinion is this study is bs. I choose to go by personal and my friends' experiences.

[NPayette]

I tried Kre-Alk and Mono.

Both gived results but not different results and Kre-Alk was more expensive. So I prefer to go with the cheapest

[Traps]

Exactly pimp..........They all work. Thats not the question. But I think the over hyped delivery and all that jazz that the new age creatines claim is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Furthermore I really question if the new age creatines really perform the same as mono in the long term. Afterall, they are different compounds, well..... at least the CEE is, not sure about the kre-alk.

[dannyboy9]

Great post NPayette (especially since you beat me to it). With the help of our brother Traps, I was directed here and I just wanted to share some more information concerning the issue. I came across this on another forum (posted by another member):

I don't know how many of you were at the ISSNs 4th annual conference in Vegas. If you were and walked by the poster presentations you probably saw the first research conducted on Creatine Ethyl Ester.

Drs Tallon and Child out of the UK tested the marketing claim that CEE avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids, providing Cr greater absorption. The availability of free creatine was compared between creatine monohydrate, SANs CM2 Alpha and MRIs CE2. After 120 minutes of incubation in 900mL of pH 1 HCL at 37 degreesC, about 3/4 of the CEE in MRI's CE2 was available and only 11% available from CM2 Alpha, while boring old creatine monohydrate was still there standing strong at 99%.

Turns out that the marketing claims that these companies use are the exact opposite of what the product does in an acidic environment. Ever wonder why you don't get the bloat with CEE? It may be because you're not really using any creatine.

[mitchcumstein]

Thats great stuff Danny. But wait, supp compaines wouldnt purposefully misrepresent a product.