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12-13-2006, 08:06 PM
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Soy bad?
I was watching the news the other day and a sports doctor said soy protein is'nt very good for gaining muscle. I guess it is a complete protein, but does'nt have the best ratios as say whey or milk does. I've been using soy for awile because milk upsets my stomach (think I have lactose intolerance). I tried whey and it does the same thing to my tummy. I even tried slim fast high protein that is supposed to be lactose free and it does the same thing (it does have calcium casinate in it though, so I wonder if I'm allergic to milk and not lactose)? Anyway, I've pretty much given up on protein powders and try to eat meat and eggs with every meal, but know I probly will have difficulty gaining that way, which I have been, but have recently put a couple pounds on. Agree? Should I go with an egg protein powder or try to go with the whey again and try those lactaid suppliments which did'nt seem to work too good last time I tried them and are kind of expensive if you take them as directed?
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12-13-2006, 10:08 PM
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if egg proteins work for you then just go for them. its a proven fact that protein from eggs are absorbed by the body at a higher percentage compared to whey etc. 88% of all egg protein taken is absorbed. however with chicken etc only 78% of all protein id absorbed
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12-14-2006, 02:00 PM
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Protein supplements tend to cause bloating or slight stomach aches, but that's normal, especially whey proteins. Is this stomach ache result in other things or just a tummy ache?
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12-14-2006, 08:27 PM
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It depends, usually gas and bloating, sometimes nausea or diarrhea. But come to think of it, the later usually just with milk. I did'nt know protein was supposed to do that to you. How come soy or solid protein foods does'nt cause these symptoms?
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12-14-2006, 08:41 PM
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Taken from one of my posts concerning soy milk vs. dairy milk (which we came to the conclusion that nutrion-wise, soy milk is better): You can try looking for a lactose free whey protein. Dairy milk isn't the best/nor the only source protein. You can gain tons from drinking soy milk. A few facts on soy: Soy milk has 8x more ALA omega 3's than dairy milk It contains 170 mg ALA omega-3 per serving; reduced fat milk contains 20mg omega-3 per serving and 1300 mg of omega-6 fatty acids Soy milk contains 18 times more iron than reduced fat milk. Soy milk contains 1.44 mg iron per serving; reduced fat milk contains .08 mg iron per serving Soy milk is also a great source of energy due to the protein. It's cholesterol & Lactose free Soy milk contains powerful antioxidants that help fight disease and aging. They have been found to increase bone density and strengthen the immune system. Adequate soy protein has been proven to lower and stabilize cholesterol levels and can be effective in preventing heart disease. Natural soy isoflavones have been proven to help menopausal symptoms for women, and soy promotes good prostate health for men. Soy milk is rich in protein, and contains soluble fiber. In addition to being cholesterol-free, studies have shown that a diet including soymilk actually helps lower levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol, while leaving HDL (good) cholesterol unaffected! Soy milk contains a host of helpful isoflavones, one of which is called genistein. Studies show that this valuable phytoestrogen actually suppresses the growth of cancer cells. SOY IS THE ONLY COMMONLY CONSUMED INGREDIENT THAT CONTAINS GENISTEIN! One of the main reasons for drinking soy milk is for its healthy nutrients: soy proteins, soy compounds, isoflavones, essential vitamins, etc. These nutrients, particularly the disease-fighting phytochemicals and phytoestrogens, are significantly degraded over time. Milk - facts and fallacies - Better Health Channel. This taken right from that link: "Australians tend to restrict dairy foods when they try to lose weight, believing them to be fattening. Dairy foods contain saturated fats, which have been associated with increased blood cholesterol levels. However, dairy foods are not a threat to good health if consumed in moderation as part of a nutritious diet." I've never heard of anything bad happening with an over-moderate consumption of soy milk  Taken from Soy Beverages Versus Cow's Milk "Although infants are able to digest, absorb and excrete these isoflavones as efficiently as adults, it remains unclear whether they are beneficial or detrimental to health" There's plenty of studies showing how beneficial isoflavones found in soy are. As a matter of fact,I believe one of my posts mentioned the benefits of these isoflavones. Taken from above facts: Natural soy isoflavones have been proven to help menopausal symptoms for women, and soy promotes good prostate health for men. Soy milk is rich in protein, and contains soluble fiber. In addition to being cholesterol-free, studies have shown that a diet including soymilk actually helps lower levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol, while leaving HDL (good) cholesterol unaffected! Milk was said to not have any fiber content in the link posted comparing dairy milk and soy. Soy milk contains a host of helpful isoflavones, one of which is called genistein. Studies show that this valuable phytoestrogen actually suppresses the growth of cancer cells. SOY IS THE ONLY COMMONLY CONSUMED INGREDIENT THAT CONTAINS GENISTEIN! I don't believe milk does any of this... One of the main reasons for drinking soy milk is for its healthy nutrients: soy proteins, soy compounds, isoflavones, essential vitamins, etc. These nutrients, particularly the disease-fighting phytochemicals and phytoestrogens, are significantly degraded over time. Taken from Milk - facts and fallacies - Better Health Channel. "Milk contains many different nutrients Milk and milk products contain a good balance of protein, fat and carbohydrate and are a very important source of essential nutrients including: * Calcium * Riboflavin * Phosphorous * Vitamins A, D and B12 * Pantothenic acid." Soy milk is fortified with these as well. "Milk and mucous Many people in Australia believe that nasal stuffiness is related, in part, to how much milk you drink. However, there is no scientific basis to this theory. Milk doesn’t encourage extra mucous production." Of course it does lol, no one can drink dairy milk when they have any sort of phlegm or mucus in the mouth area because dairy milk makes it worse. On top of that, it also mentions in the same page "although milk is an excellent source of calcium, it isn’t the only one." Not a very big statement because there are numerous ways to incorporate any sort of vitamin, mineral, etc. into your diet due to the variety of foods available but that doesn't help the cause either. 
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi Last edited by dannyboy9; 05-18-2007 at 12:03 PM.
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12-14-2006, 08:46 PM
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Soy's Powerful Antioxidant Benefits
During each day of our lives, we are exposed to oxidative stress. Our bodies produce free radicals, unstable molecules that cause harm to our body?s cells as a by-product of normal metabolism. Exposure to a variety of environmental factors, such as cigarette smoke and environmental pollutants, also increases our susceptibility to free radicals. The resulting oxidative damage has been implicated in a number of chronic health conditions. Therefore, it is important to consume adequate amounts of dietary antioxidants to reduce the oxidative stress and maintain overall health. A growing amount of cell culture/test tube1-3, animal4-6, and human7-12 research suggests that the isoflavones in soy are powerful antioxidants. Studies have reported that soy isoflavones alone1 and in combination with vitamin C2 reduce the oxidation of plasma LDL cholesterol. Scientific research has also suggested that soy consumption reduces plasma LDL cholesterol oxidation? the oxidation process turns bad LDL into a form that is even worse!4?and inhibits oxidative damage to the skin5. Several human clinical studies have demonstrated the beneficial antioxidant effects of soy. In one study, it was reported that higher amounts of isoflavones reduced lipid oxidation to a greater extent than low isoflavone amounts7. Other studies have shown that soy isoflavones reduce markers of oxidative damage8-10 and improve total antioxidant status10-11. Furthermore, in a study of breast cancer survivors, consumption of soy isoflavones increased the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase12. Overall, these studies suggest that adding soy to your diet may help to support better antioxidant status. So, while many forms of stress can alter your health and outlook on life through oxidative damage, including antioxidants from soy isoflavone-rich foods and supplements in your daily diet can help to reduce the effects of everyday stress. References: 1. Hodgson JM, Croft KD, Puddey IB, Mori TA, Beilin LJ. Soybean isoflavonoids and their metabolic products inhibit in vitro lipoprotein oxidation in serum. Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry 1996; 7:664-669. 2. Hwang J, Sevanian A, Hodis HN, Ursini F. Synergistic inhibition of LDL oxidation by phytoestrogens and ascorbic acid. Free Radical Biology & Medicine 2000; 29:79-89. 3. Rimbach G, De Pascual-Teresa S, Weins BA, Matsugo S, Uchida Y, Minihane AM, Turner R, Vafeiadou K, Weinberg, PD. Antioxidant and free radical scavenging activity of isoflavone metabolites. Xenobiotica 2003; 33:913-925. 4. Damasceno NRT, Goto H, Rodrigues FMD, Dia CTS, Okawabata FS, Abdalla DSP, Gidlund M. Soy protein isolate reduces the oxidizability of LDL and the generation of oxidized LDL autoantibodies in rabbits with diet-induced atherosclerosis. Journal of Nutrition 2000; 130:2641-2647. 5. Wei H, Zhang X, Wang Y, Lebwohl M. Inhibition of ultraviolet light-induced oxidative events in the skin and internal organs of hairless mice by isoflavone genistein. Cancer Letters 2002; 185:21-29. 6. Aoki H, Otaka Y, Igarashi K, Takenaka A. Soy protein reduces paraquat-induced oxidative stress in rats. Journal of Nutrition 2002; 132:2258-2262. 7. Wiseman H, O?Reilly JDO, Adlercreutz H, Mallet AI, Bowey EA, Rowland IR, Sanders TAB. Isoflavone phytoestrogens consumed in soy decrease F2-isoprostane concentrations and increase resistance of low-density lipoprotein to oxidation in humans. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 2000; 72:395-400. 8. Djuric Z, Chen G, Doerge DR, Heilbrun LK, Kucuk O. Effect of soy isoflavone supplementation on markers of oxidative stress in men and women. Cancer Letters 2001; 172:1-6. 9. Davis JN, Kucuk O, Djuric Z, Sarkar FH. Soy isoflavone supplementation in healthy men prevents NF-kB activation by TNF-a in blood lymphocytes. Free Radical Biology & Medicine 2001; 30:1293-1302. 10. Chen CY, Bakhiet RM, Hart V, Holtzman G. Isoflavones improve plasma homocysteine status and antioxidant defense system in healthy young men at rest but do not ameliorate oxidative stress inducedc by 80% VO2pk exercise. Annals of Nutrition & Metabolism 2005; 49:33-41. 11. Bazzoli DL, Hill S, DiSilvestro RA. Soy protein antioxidant actions in active, young adult women. Nutrition Research 2002; 22:807-815. 12. DiSilvestro RA, Goodman J, Dy E, LaValle G. Soy isoflavone supplementation elevates erythrocyte superoxide dismutase, but not ceruloplasmin in postmenopausal breast cancer survivors. Breast Cancer Research and Treatment 2005; 89:251-255 Health care professionals and consumers alike are becoming more aware of the potential benefits that adding protein to the diet can provide. Throughout our lives, protein in our bodies is continuously broken down and remade, thus requiring the addition of protein to our diets. High quality proteins provide the best and most efficient way to meet human nutritional needs. Therefore, it is important that the protein added to the diet is of the highest quality possible. The nutritional quality of soy protein has been studied in depth . Studies have shown that nitrogen balance, digestibility, and protein utilization are similar between beef and soy proteins. Other studies show that soy protein can support nitrogen balance and does provide adequate amounts of the amino acid methionine, which is important for growth and development . Recent studies have reported that nitrogen absorption, protein digestibility, biological value, and net utilization of soy protein are similar to milk protein . The high digestibility of soy protein, the content and bioavailability of its amino acids, and the nitrogen content make soy protein a high quality protein. Based on protein digestibility calculations, soy protein achieves a score of 1.0, the highest score possible and on par with other high quality proteins like egg whites and milk proteins. Therefore, the addition of soy to the diet is a good way to meet all of your protein nutritional requirements. __________________________________________________ _________________________ An estimated 61% of American adults are now considered overweight or obese, with the biggest weight gain among Baby Boomers age 50 and older. Although this generation is taking more preventive health measures such as routine mammograms, prostate screenings and physicals, the 50-plus crowd has nearly doubled its weight over the past two decades. Even though millions of us spend untold amounts of money in an attempt to lose weight, Americans are heavier than ever. As we grow older, and exercise less, the task of staying fit and trim becomes even more difficult. And while a sensible diet combined with exercise is still the best answer, new research shows that soy can play a major role in helping you achieve your weight loss goals faster. Health support with soy? A significant number of research studies support claims that soy consumption can help you lose weight. Soy protein is a low-fat source of high-quality protein (compared to many other protein sources) that can help you build lean muscle mass. When combined with exercise and a healthy diet, soy protein makes an excellent "partner" in a successful weight loss plan. 1) Soy protein helps you feel fuller longer. Recent medical studies show soy protein helps you feel less hungry, and helps you feel fuller longer . Eating soy may work by causing your stomach to send an "I'm full" messages to your brain . This helps reduce the urge to snack between meals and late at night - two major causes of weight gain. 2) " Soy protein is low-carb." As a naturally low-carb food, Revival Soy is the perfect supplement to any weight loss plan, including popular "low-carb" and "high-protein" diets. 3) Soy protein has a "low-glycemic index." Not only is soy protein low in carbs and fat, but it also has a low-glycemic index which means it won't cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels after consumption. This prevents over secretion of insulin (insulin causes the unwanted effect of storing extra sugar in your bloodstream as body fat). Stable blood sugar and insulin levels mean fewer hunger cravings and fewer calories being stored as fat. Revival Soy as part of an existing diet plan. To reduce hunger cravings, simply supplement your current diet plan with delicious Soy products, such as bars, shakes, etc. __________________________________________________ _________________________ Diabetes results when the body doesn't properly make insulin (Type 1 Diabetes) or utilize insulin (Type 2 Diabetes), thus resulting in blood sugar concentrations that are very unhealthy. Uncontrolled high blood sugar levels eventually damage the heart, kidneys, eyes and nerves. The good news is that better Type 2 Diabetic health can often be supported with meal planning, exercise and weight loss. Clinical research evidence shows that soy is a very smart nutritional choice ( 1). In a randomized, double blind, trial of dietary soy supplementation, 32 women with Type 2 diabetes received 30 grams of soy protein per day (containing 132 mg isoflavones) or placebo for 12 weeks. Soy consumption reduced fasting insulin by over 8% and insulin resistance by nearly 6.5%. Soy consumption also resulted in significantly lower values fasting insulin and insulin resistance when compared to the placebo-treated group ( 2). Similar beneficial effects have been reported in postmenopausal women ( 3, 4 ). In one study, soy isoflavone consumption (100 mg/day) for 6 months reduced levels of fasting blood sugar levels by 85% and insulin by 56% ( 3), while the second study demonstrated that genistein consumption was associated with both a lower fasting insulin levels and a lower insulin level 2 hours after a glucose challenge ( 4). Another reason that soy may support better diabetic health is because it has a low-glycemic index ( i.e. it is a "Smart-Carb") ( 5). Soy's low glycemic index doesn't cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels. The most likely reason for this is that the carbohydrates typically found in soy and soy foods are broken down more slowly, therefore preventing the spikes in blood glucose often observed with high glycemic foods. In summary, adding soy to one's diet is a great way to "be smart" about diabetic health.
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi Last edited by dannyboy9; 12-14-2006 at 08:56 PM.
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12-14-2006, 09:06 PM
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi
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12-15-2006, 10:24 AM
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You should do your best to try and remember what flavor it was & brand it was. I drink Silk's Chocolate soy milk and it tastes just like regular dairy chocolate milk minus the thick sugary taste and the extra mucus after drinking it. lol
It's like people that say sushi is disgusting but when you ask them what type of sushi they tried, they've only tried one type of roll (most likely the the veggie roll, the most boring out of all of them).
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi
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12-15-2006, 10:34 AM
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I don't mind the taste of soy, I just wonder why that sports doctor did'nt think it was the best for gaining muscle. And whey is made from milk, so I wonder how it can be made lactose free. Same with muscle milk, supposed to be lactose free, but made from calcium casinate, which comes from milk.
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12-15-2006, 05:08 PM
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 As far as the lactose free issue, I'm not too educated on that so I honestly can't tell you. 
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi
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05-12-2007, 04:38 PM
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Soy protein for gaining lean muscle mass Soy may prevent your body from stockpiling fat as you age - plus increase body-firming muscle Are you getting older and wider? If so, try introducing more soy into your diet - specifically soy that is high in isoflavones, naturally occurring estrogen-like compounds in legumes. In a study conducted by researchers at the University of Iowa, Iowa City, menopausal women were given 40 gm a day of soy protein high in isoflavones, soy protein devoid of isoflavones or whey protein. At the end of 24 weeks, changes in the women?s body composition were measured by a low-level radiation scan. Women who consumed isoflavone-rich soy gained lean muscle in their waists, hips and thighs, plus lost fat in their thighs - two favorable changes in body composition. The researchers do not offer an explanation as to why soy appears to be a fat fighter and muscle builder, although they comment that it arrests the weight gain and loss of muscle that typically occur during menopause. Interestingly, research also indicates soy protein significantly reduces body fat storage in animals. All of this is good news, especially if you?re approaching middle age. Paring away pudge reduces your odds of obesity-related diseases such as heart disease and diabetes, plus makes you look and feel good. As for muscle gain, the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn, even at rest. There are may other good reasons to fortify your diet with soy foods. Other research shows isoflavone-rich soy may help normalize cholesterol, lower blood pressure, reduce the risk of prostate cancer, enhance bone health and improve short-and long-term memory. Some good sources of isoflavones include soy protein powdered supplements (53 mg. of isoflavones per serving) and fortified soy milk (43 mg per serving). Shoot for around 25 to 40 gm of soy protein daily. Maggie Greenwood-Robinson, Ph.D Note: Soy must be water washed to maintain the Phyto-chemicals and Phyto-estrogens in the soy. Many companies use alcohol to wash their soy. Soy protein has been proven to be of the same protein quality as meat, milk and eggs. It is well accepted as protein source for over half of the world's people. Whey is a byproduct of cheese production. There are different grades of whey and some are not as complete a protein as soy. However, just for arguments sake, let's assume that some particular whey is as good as meat, milk and eggs. If you consume whey instead of soy protein you miss the following:
soy in "protein power", for the reasons above, I would opt for soy every time.
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"Supplements are supplements to your training, nutrition & most of all attitude." -Mehdi Last edited by dannyboy9; 05-12-2007 at 04:41 PM.
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05-12-2007, 05:44 PM
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Im not going to bash soy protein because as of lately it has been shown to be a quality protein.
However, I wouldnt use soy exclusively, a person needs a variety of proteins from different sources and at different times. Where whey is superior over soy is the fact it contains higher amounts of BCAA's and is digested quicker which is more optimal for post workout.
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TEAM 7 MOTOROLA
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05-12-2007, 06:26 PM
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Somehow, I'm not surprised you chimed in my friend.  Quote:
 Here's an interesting issue with the Dairy Industry: Clueless: Food Pyramide Committee Quote:
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