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10-30-2006, 08:38 PM
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Can you say sticky!
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04-22-2007, 06:38 AM
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only just read this. really good info. its weird to me how glutamine is obviously the most abundant amino in the muscles yet theres still so much debate about its values!!!!!!!
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th e y say mas tu rb a t io n eff e ct s th e abil i t y to r ea d thin g s pr o perly.
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04-22-2007, 08:07 AM
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That should read "Most people take between 500 mgs and and 1000 mgs" 1000 grams is a kilogram which is 2.2 pounds. that would be a lot to supplement everyday lol
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1-20-2009. The day the end of the world began
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04-22-2007, 08:08 AM
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LOL - besides, "between 500mg and 1,000g" is a pretty big damn range!
Great read Danny.
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When asked about his experience Obama said "But I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night."
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04-22-2007, 08:55 AM
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One thing I'd like to say about Tryptophan is that it is unbanned and I use it. Combined with melatonin, I'm getting the deepest sleep I've ever had.
L-Tryptophan: Tryptophan is a natural relaxant that helps to alleviate insomnia, reduce anxiety and improve mood. It is probably the most sought after supplement for people suffering from sleep disorders as it leads to increased slow wave sleep. It has also been shown to be highly effective in the treatment of migraine headaches and other forms of chronic pain. Further, Tryptophan helps reduce the risk of heart spasms and works with Lysine in reducing cholesterol levels. Trypthophan was one of the most popular aminos in the 70ís and 80ís until 1988 when the United States FDA banned it. This occurred as a result of one Japanese company Showa Denko exporting a tainted batch of Tryptophan into the US. The Showa Denko amino was manufactured with a new, untested process that skipped an important filtering step. The result was a number of deaths attributed to a rare blood disease which resulted from the use of this product. Tryptophan continues to be banned in many nations despite the overwhelming evidence that it is a safe sleep inducing product. As far as supplementing it for athletic gains, before it was banned, there were no consistent performance improvements seen in athletes supplementing Tryptophan. So why bother. Not to mention the fact that there are high amounts of Tryptophan in all protein rich foods, especially cottage cheese, milk, meat, fish, turkey, bananas, dates and peanuts. ************************************************** ** One other thing I'd like to add - Which are EAA and which are N-EAA. The Essential Aminos are the ones you MUST get from your diet as the body cannot synthesize them. Here are the EAA, obviously, the rest are non-essential, but some are conditionally essential (meaning in certain times of stress, they are needed moreso). Essential Amino Acids Isoleucine Leucine Valine Threonine Phenylalanine Tryptophan Methionine Histidine Arginine Lysine One other thing - I wrote this probably 5 years ago and included a paraphrase of it almost 2 years ago in the top paragraph. My 9-18-2005 paraphrase - your body has to have every amino acid present to be in a positive nitrogen balance. The BCAAs (leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine) are the most readily metabolized for energy (glycogen production), thus are the most limited. Not having them present, no matter how many total grams of protein you consume, will NOT allow you to build muscle. SO, SUPP WITH BCAAs!!! For optimum muscle growth, cellular growth, metabolism, and recovery to occur, the proper proportions of amino acids need to be eaten. However, eating amino acid sources, such as meat and eggs, does not ensure that the amino acids they supply will be available for muscle growth and formation of other proteins. For example, suppose you have a gross intake of 100 grams of protein with all the essential amino acids present in equal amounts. Now consider how these amino acids are used in the body. To start, a considerable amount of leucine will be used for energy in exercising muscle. This means that there may be only a small amount of leucine available for growth and repair. When leucine finally runs out, this will affect protein formation because leucine is an essential amino acid. That means your body cannot make it. In actuality, perhaps only 15 grams of the original 100 grams of protein will be available for growth and repair. This is one reason why athletes need more protein, not just to compensate for growth and recovery demands from exercise, but to compensate for the loss of essential amino acids like leucine when they are used for energy. However, there has been a trend in some circles of athletes, bodybuilders in particular, where they are ingesting pure protein meals or supplements. This is counterproductive, because some of the protein will be broken down and converted to glucose and fatty acids in the liver. You should always have some amount of carbohydrates, and fat, to prevent the undesirable destruction of ingested protein. Like fats and carbohydrates, amino acids can also be used for energy. When dietary circumstances cause amino acids to be used as a source of energy, they cannot be used for building muscle tissue and performing their other metabolic functions. Actually, under conditions of outright starvation or training induced starvation, the body releases amino acids from muscle tissue to be used as energy or in energy cycles. This catabolism of proteins also can and does occur during exercise and when the body runs out of carbohydrate fuel from the diet or from glycogen stored in the muscles and liver. Even though the body can depend on fat stored for fuel, muscle proteins will still be used as fuel, unless proteins are taken in as food. During intensive exercise, the body will use amino acids for energy, especially power exercises and prolonged endurance sports. That is why it is essential to maintain a proper daily protein intake each hour of the day. Even if you are maintaining a proper diet, amino acids are going to be used as the body’s fuel during those grueling exercise bouts. The branched chain amino acids, isoleucine, valine, and leucine are used by muscles to supply a limited amount of energy during strenuous exercise. Research has shown that although all three branched chain amino acids can be utilized for energy during exercise, leucine is the amino acid that gets used up the most. Studies have shown that a trained person’s muscles use up some amounts of leucine even while at rest. This disproportionate use of leucine and the other BCAA’s will effect the overall use of amino acids in the body for growth. There is data available that suggests that Leucine is used by the body as an "indicator" amino, meaning it checks the availability of Leucine, and if it is available, the body assumes it has the aminos it needs to be in a positive nitrogen balance and increases synthesis. This may explain why protein synthesis is higher in proteins that have a higher level of Leucine.
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04-22-2007, 10:26 AM
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Interesting note on the leucine Boyd. I have been supplementing with extra leucine now for awhile. I heard from Layne that it has been shown to have
10x more impact on protein synthesis.
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TEAM NORTON
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04-22-2007, 10:38 AM
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I was first introduced to megadosing the BCAAs about 7 years ago when I first moved down here. I went to hear Coach Charles Poliquin speak and he mentioned that some of his athletes were taking as much as 100g per day extra and he talked about some of the results. Nite, I know you've heard me mention this before (but others haven't), but the first person I had do it was an NFL player that I still work with. We reduced his previous amount of overall protein and then started adding BCAAs in gradually until during a typical day, about 80g of his protein intake was BCAA supplementation. With roughly the same amount of overall protein intake and no drastic changes in his exercise regimen, he gained about 9lbs of LBM in the FIRST MONTH. No tricks, no gimmicks - we're talking about an elite athlete that had a visible change. So much so that other players just assumed he was taking who knows what, and I know this guy was completely clean. The increased synthesis WILL DEFINITELY INCREASE OVERALL RECOVERY. Increased recovery, now this is common sense, will increase not only muscle growth, but the way you feel overall. The average person doesn't live the grueling life that an NFL player lives, and I don't care how often you lift or whatever. I don't, you don't, and nobody else does outside of about 2 other sports. It's insane. My chiropractor is also a main chiropractor for the Cowboys (who I'm not a fan of) and he said that he's seen people in catastrophic car wrecks and they don't have half the damage that an NFL running back has after ONE GAME. He said if you want to know what it feels like being Emmitt Smith, get on a motorcycle and drive 35mph into a garage door 25 times... My point behind that is our recovery needs are different. If you're in pain, your body has to focus on that. Numerous studies have shown that injury, sickness, etc all have an effect on hormone production and protein synthesis (and I'd guess it's common sense). So starting out low and getting up to 40-45g per day would yield incredible results for most people in this forum.
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04-22-2007, 10:45 AM
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I can definitely say since I started supplementing with BCAA's, it has helped me quite a bit. Especially during my cutting phase this time compared to last year when I started before I had my surgery and had to stop the cut.
I lost muscle pretty early in my weeks of the diet but now since Ive supplemented with them, I havent lost any muscle, but my fat is leaving. Im not taking any other different supplements this time other than the BCAA's so Im pretty convinced thats what is saving me.
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TEAM NORTON
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04-22-2007, 10:59 AM
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They DEFINITELY have a muscle preserving effect.
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04-22-2007, 11:54 AM
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04-23-2007, 08:11 AM
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Boyd- I recently bought some Leucine, mainly because it was the cheapest to buy in bulk and I'm not exactly liquid at the moment. I was wondering what sort of dosage I should use for it, on the pack it recommends a grams worth in between each meal?
Peace
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04-23-2007, 08:17 AM
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I'm trying to figure out if you can throw the ratio of Leucine: Isoleucine: Valine out of whack by megadosing Leucine. Not that you'd have any side effects, but I'd think that there would be absorption issues. That's the reason I prefer taking all 3 together.
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04-23-2007, 08:27 AM
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04-23-2007, 09:00 AM
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05-04-2007, 08:00 PM
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Gee nite, didnt I tell you that like oh i dunno 8 months ago...lol  Dont forget about leucines impact on insulin when combined with carbohydrates and protein.  Overtraining/Recovery/Dual Factor Theory
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Founder of F.A. (Fatceps Anonymous) Last edited by Traps; 05-04-2007 at 08:02 PM.
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05-05-2007, 01:24 AM
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You guys have to suck it up with this nasty tasting supplements talk. Just this afternoon I took 15 grams (1 tablespoon) of pure BCAA by mouth, just threw all 15 grams in, then chugged some water. Does it taste bad? YES. Thats how it goes though. LIke I have said before, go find some powdered CEE, take 5 grams of concentrate, when you can do that, and not gag, or spit it up, then you can take anything.
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Squat - 405 Deadlift - 510 Bench - 315 Total - 1230
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