arginine/lysine/orthinine questions

[blinky99]

can you take all three? does arg and orth cancel uptake of lysine as ive read, could you refer a link? recomendations of dosage? yes i tried searching.
arg recomend dose 3-4 grams 30 min before work out? 150lb male taking with creatine.

[TRAZ]

I have never heard of that being true...Do you have any articles to support this?

[yoyoman]

Do you have any articles to support that arginine is safe. I have other wise from berkeley saying not to take individual amino acids.

[blinky99]

"Preliminary studies of lysine with competitors have shown lysine uptake to be consistent with the Y+ transport system as the high affinity uptake mechanism (Table 1). Arginine and ornithine (cationic amino acids which use the Y+system) are strong inhibitors of lysine uptake. In addition to the cationic amino acids, the neutral amino acids also have a strong interaction with the uptake of lysine. Leucine and cyclo-leucine, both substrates for the L uptake system, showed inhibition of lysine uptake, though not as strong as the cationic amino acids. Other neutral amino acids such as methionine and alanine (system ASC substrates), also inhibited lysine uptake. Lysine uptake was partially inhibited by D-lysine, indicating that the uptake mechanism is only partially stereospecific. Most naturally occuring amino acids are of the L stereoisomer. A substrate for system A, MeAIB (methyl aminoisobutyric acid), did not significantly inhibit lysine uptake."

Knabe,D.A., J.H. Brendemuhl, L.I. Chiba, and C.R. Dove. 1996. Supplemental lysine for sows nursing large litters. J. Anim. Sci. 74:1635-1640.


Rickert, B.T., M.D. Tokach, R.D. Goodband, J.L. Nelseen, J.E. Pettigrew, R.D. Walker, and L.J. Johnston. 1996. Valine requirement of the high-producing sow. J. Anim. Sci. 74:1307-1313.


Shennan, D.B. 1998. Mammary Gland Membrane Transport Systems. J. Mam. Gland Biol. Neoplasia 3: 247-258.


Trottier, N.L., C.F. Shippley, and R.A. Easter. 1997 Plasma amino acid uptake by the mammary gland of the lactating sow. J. Anim. Sci. 75:1266-1278.

and arganine is the main ingreadient in any of those pricey NO products so i assume its safe

[yoyoman]

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsArginine.php

the Federal Trade Commission stopped the company from making such unsubstantiated medical claims. (Only drugs are allowed to make explicit medical claims, after stringent testing for safety and efficacy.) Other types of arginine supplements include Herc Vitality Drink Mix and Niteworks. The latter is made by Herbalife, which not only claims that the product is based on Nobel Prize-winning research (several arginine products make this claim), but also boasts that one of the Nobel winners has actually collaborated on its supplement. That doesn’t mean that Niteworks is better than any other arginine supplement. The ads for these products avoid explicit medical claims, but they still make it sound like the products are drugs, not dietary supplements. And they sometimes cost as much as drugs—$90 a month for Niteworks, for instance.---------- In theory, all this is promising, but arginine’s benefits are uncertain and its long-term safety unknown. Briefly boosting nitric oxide may not actually benefit people with cardiovascular disease, let alone those hoping to avoid it. ------------And no one really knows what large doses of this isolated amino acid do in the body over the long haul. Increased amounts of isolated amino acids can create imbalances with other amino acids and thus have adverse effects. ---------Increased nitric oxide might be dangerous for people with certain medical conditions, such as kidney failure or cancer. And no one knows what’s the right dose or when it should be taken.

[blinky99]

so why do so many people take NO products whsoe primary ingredient usualy 3grams is arganine or some form of it. i my self can attest to the "pump" effect while on NO products although i stoped as they were to pricey.

So logicaly why can't you take the active ingredient of a product that everyone takes by itself. Taking no more than the amount that is in it ie 3grams.