professional help needed ..tribuls dangers..where are u smart guys plz answer

[ams33]

hey guys
i am passing in a period of severe hate for my body ...let s call it depression

well , i heard fantastic results about creatine ,so i bought creatine mono and glutamine and whey ....it was way far under my expectations ,i m using it 4 4 weeks now and i feel so sad ....so i decided to take other supplements : no ...a lot of debate about it and many say it give pumps but no muscle gains ....zma some also said that it s not worth it ...and finally tribulus , i was on my way to buy it when i came across a website that invoked fear in me from tribulus plz check it out :

as far as am concerned i dont mind getting SOME acne , but not break outs..btw will they disappear uppon cutting down

the biggest concern is GYNECOMASTIA , it s rational , how we re sure that testosterone wont convert to estrogen and give u *****y tits that guy talked about in the website ??besides how do we treat it and will it cease if we stopped tribulus??...i want so bad a fckin SAFE supp to get some gains or else i llgo crazy , i cant imagine a life without a good body ....thanks and plz answer only if ur sure , it s not a joke to have gynecomastia

[vassille]

Dude, calm down! you need a really high levels of estrogen to get gyno.
Trib doen not elevate you test that high to make you raise your estrogen in order to combat that high test levels.

[wnxmaximus]

Im not sure why you need a supplement to get stronger. you are making it sound like without a supplement you wont make any gains. Sure supplements can help, but they dont take you from no improvement to instant success. Im just sayin, maybe you have too much emphasis on supplements to help you get your ideal physique.

[Builder101]

Check your diet thats the best thing you can do for your body. The supplements are only as good as your diet is. I can take roids but they won't help for **** if I eat and drink chips and pop all day.

[ams33]

one thing ur absolutely right about guys is : diet ..yes i try my best but my diet is not enough that s why am taking supp i will try my best to change my diet but the thing that made me went so sad is that i ve been taking creatine whey and glutamine for a month now and i have slight slight gains ...thats why am going crazy and that made me think if there s something wrong with my body that s why i thought raising test levels will be great although not all the feedbacks were positive ,but i might give it a try if i m sure it s 100%safe ..am gonna stack it with zma ,right now am searchin for an estrogen blocker to be on the safe side if i took them alltogether ....any feedback ,help , info ur sure about will be more than welcome , help a bro here ....and i hope am gonna make it in the next 7 months left for me be4 i get into med school

[Curlingcadys]

If tribulus does actually work as a test booster and you are suceptible to gyno then yes, it can lead to gyno. High test levels can convert to estrogen which can lead to gyno. doesn't necessarily mean you will get gyno though.

[hrpiii]

if your diet is bad AND you are taking these additional supplements.. your body may be going in the wrong direction, hence you feeling depressed. Without you regulating (I mean keeping track of your carbs, calories, fat, and protein) your diet on a daily basis, how do you really/honestly know where you are at. If you are at your max. daily calorie intake just from regular meals, then you add all the creatine and protein shakes.. you are just begging to be adding some fat onto your frame.

[redhotchiliis85]

yeah everyone is right when they emphasize your diet. i'll bet that you're not getting enough calories and not eating almost every two hours that you're awake. but the real reason that i'm posting is cuz it's 'sieze' and not 'see'. i'm an eminem fan too

[joe526]

you can take a million supplements and your not gonna grow unless your getting enough out of your diet. You sound like your searching for the miracle pill. Post your diet and stats please

[ams33]

guys u are absolutely right .....i admit i was wrong ...ok now am changing my diet .....am aiming at loosing some fat too ...i didnt make and wont make a schedule but i ll stick to guidelines : i will eat 6 meals per day of : chickens , fish , tuna ...and egg whites ...i ll eat as much as i can ....some vegetable and fruits .....i will eat red meat every now and then .....does this sound good ...any one have a meal schedules can post it so i can benefit from it...remember am loosing fat also ...

[ams33]

btw eminem s body is ideal in my opinion ...vin diesel also ..if i get up to this point ..i wont bulk anymore ..just maintain those gains .....how much time do u think i may need ????

[SICKOFITALL]

Originally Posted by ams33

btw eminem s body is ideal in my opinion ...vin diesel also ..if i get up to this point ..i wont bulk anymore ..just maintain those gains .....how much time do u think i may need ????

If you need to bulk up to look like Slim Shady, head to the nearest buffet brother and fill up!

[Curlingcadys]

eminem has a phasique to admire?

When did that shiit happen?!

[TRAZ]

/\ That is what I was just thinking....

[macro]

tribulus does not raise test levels- though it may be able to aggravate gynecomastia

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=457118

[Curlingcadys]

Originally Posted by macro

tribulus does not raise test levels- though it may be able to aggravate gynecomastia

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=457118

no shiit dick tracey but in lamens terms you could say it helps encourage natural test production, similar to a mild kick in the ass per se. Nothing to write home about but it does help.

[macro]

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

no shiit dick tracey but in lamens terms you could say it helps encourage natural test production, similar to a mild kick in the ass per se. Nothing to write home about but it does help.

actually it does not, which is what those studies say.

[Curlingcadys]

Originally Posted by macro

actually it does not, which is what those studies say.

so I guess through my 1/2 dozen or so personal experiences and many others experiencing a mild positive reaction along with some negatives of acne and such is just all pure coincidence then right?

True if your levels are not deficient there's pretty good odds you'll notice nothing however if your levels are low, I bet you will I personally have used trib in situations of shut down and also have not used trib in the same situations....needless to say recovery times quite lop sided in favor of when I used trib. But hey I must be crazy....

[Curlingcadys]

Here's some more coincidence for you...

Article references:

Arthur Sydney PH.D.
Eugene Thiller PH.D.

Tribulus terrestris has traditionally been used as a mood-enhancing smoke, tea (infusion) or decoction (thick, boiled tea).

The plant grows in many tropical and moderate areas of the world. Many different cultures have used it for a number of purposes. For example, the Greeks used Tribulus terrestris as a diuretic and a mood-enhancer.

Indians used it as a diuretic, antiseptic, and anti-inflammatory. The Chinese used it for a variety of liver, kidney, and cardiovascular diseases. The people of Bulgaria used Tribulus terrestris as a sex enhancer and to treat infertility. Recently, eastern European athletes and strength champions have used it as well.

Tribulus terrestris is a testosterone enhancer. Studies show that it works very well when stacked with DHEA and androstenedione. It increased testosterone levels in a different way, however, than either DHEA or andro do. Instead of being a testosterone precursor, it leads to the production of the luteinizing hormone (LH). When LH levels are increased, the natural production of testosterone also increases. LH is a hormone that also deals with sex drive. Now one can understand why it has been used to increase fertility and help with impotence. Laboratory animal studies found that Tribulus terrestris increased sperm count as well as motility levels after taking it for 30 days.

This is a good supplement for men and women to increase their sex drive. Most experts recommend experimenting with 750 to 1,250 mg per day, divided among meals. As for side effects, about one in ten people have associated some gastrointestinal upset with taking Tribulus terrestris. Taking food with it can minimize these effects if you are that one in ten.

Related to syrian rue and seeds reported to contain similar alkaloids, ie; beta-carboline alkaloids such as harmaline, though there is little direct phytochemical studies of Australian species. Used in Ayurveda, sometimes in combination with Mucuna or cowhage, plant and dried spiny fruit are esteemed as cooloing, demulcent, diuretic, tonic and aphrodisiac.
The Chinese have used Tribulus for over 400 years. In the West we became aware of Tribulus in 1982 following research by the Chemical Pharmaceutical institute in Sofia, Bulgaria.

Tribulus Terrestris is an herb commonly known as 'Puncture Vine' or Caltrop fruit, grown in various parts of the world and used medicinally for it virilizing effects. Studies have shown a better than 50% increase in testosterone levels when taking the Tribulus herb.

When scientists began studying the remarkable curative power of Tribulus, they discovered that it significantly elevates the level of several hormones: Testosterone; Luteinizing Hormone (LH is a gonad stimulating hormone produced by the pituitary gland), Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Estradiol. A significant benefit of Tribulus is the stimulation of hormone production to a balanced level, without over stimulating the secretion of hormones.

The liver is a major synthesizer of hormones. The hormones are synthesized from cholesterol, so a herb such as Tribulus that has a stimulating effect on the liver will have a major influence on cholesterol and other products of the liver. Tribulus' role as a liver tonic is very important - breaking down the cholesterol and fats that inhibit healthy liver function. The cholesterol and fats are converted to hormones and energy resulting in increased performance and stamina. This role of improving liver function, stamina and endurance is particularly beneficial to athletes and bodybuilders.

The increase in testosterone levels by Tribulus will promote protein synthesis, positive nitrogen balance as well as faster recuperation and recovery from muscular stress. Tribulus therefore has a positive effect on strength and stamina.

No adverse effects to the central nervous or cardiovascular systems were noted in any of the clinical studies; no toxicity and no deviations in blood count occurred. No known negative effects presently exist when Tribulus is used as a dietary supplement. Tribulus exhibits a mild diuretic effect.



REFERENCES

1. Grieve, M. A Modern Herbal, Harcourt, Brace & Company, (1):147, 1971.
2. Kun-Ying Yen. The Illustrated Chinese Materia Medica, SMC Publishing Inc., Taipei, 153, 1992.
3. Milanov, S. et al., Tribestan effect on the concentration of some hormones in serum of healthy subjects, 1983.
4. Protich, M. et al., Clinical trial of a Tribestan preparation in infertile men. Akush Ginekol, (4):326­329, 1983.
5. Reid, D., Chinese Herbal Medicine, Shambhala Publications Inc., Boston, 148, 1997.
6. Tomova, M. et al., An agent for stimulation of sexual function. Patent (11) 27584 A61K35/1978.
7. Viktorov, I. et al., Clinical investigation on Tribestan in males with disorders in the sexual function, 1982.


Tribulus terrestris has a list of alternative names almost as long as its history. In Traditional Chinese Medicine it is known as Ci Ji Li, Bai Ji Li or just Ji Li and is given to calm the liver and smooth the flow of liver qi. It is indicated for use in treating headaches, dizziness, premature ejaculation and spermatorrhoea (escape of sperm without orgasm). To Indian Ayurvedic practitioners the herb is called Burra Gokhru and is regarded as a diuretic, demulcent and aphrodisiac. The name Tribulus comes from the Latin word for trouble and refers to the plant's spiky seed pods. Caltrop, Puncturevine and Goat's Head are among its other English names.
OVERCOMING IMPOTENCE AND INFERTILITY

Research conducted throughout the 1980s has concluded that Tribulus extract may be of benefit to men troubled by impotence (an inability to achieve or maintain an erection satisfactory for enjoyment of sex), a low libido and poor sperm quality. This last problem relates to inadequate sperm count and/or poor sperm motility (a sperm's 'liveliness' and swimming ability). Although the exact mode of action is not yet fully understood, it has been proven that Tribulus can increase the amount of Luteinizing Hormone (LH) produced by the body's pituitary gland. LH stimulates the testes to secrete the male hormone Testosterone.

Studies in Bulgaria involving 212 men with conditions including impotence, hypogonadism (decreased function of the testes) and sperm deficiency revealed that Tribulus extract can significantly improve the quantity and quality of sperm. Men treated with Tribulus produced semen with a greater number of sperm and a higher percentage of motile sperm that swam faster and further. Men who had previously been unable to achieve an erection and men with a low libido also showed significant improvement.

It should be noted that sperm needs 80 days to reach maturity, so researchers recommend that men hoping for improved sperm quality take Tribulus for at least this length of time.
BUILDING BIGGER, STRONGER MUSCLES

The second string to the Tribulus bow was actually the first discovered. For many years now, Bulgarian strength athletes have been taking Tribulus extract in an effort to increase the strength of their muscles. Once again, the results are due to the role of Tribulus in increasing the production of luteinizing hormone, thereby stimulating the secretion of testosterone. It is commonly known that testosterone improves the body's ability to build muscle mass and strength. That's why synthetic testosterone supplements (in the form of anabolic steroids) are used. However, it should be plainly understood that Tribulus is not a hormone supplement. By promoting the production of the body's own hormones, it works only within the body's natural limits to help men achieve their strength and muscular potential. Tribulus will not cause the body to indefinitely produce more and more of any hormone, but rather it balances natural hormone levels.

As with any sports supplement, Tribulus is no quick fix. It will only help to improve strength in conjunction with an exercise programme that places the muscles under strain and then allows them to recover.
ADDITIONAL BENEFITS

Stamina, self-confidence and general well-being are all reported to improve with a Tribulus extract. Some research evidence suggests that the herb may also be useful for lowering cholesterol through its action on the liver. Tribulus terrestris is generally regarded as a safe and non-toxic herb. However it is important not to exceed the recommended dose, nor to take the herb for extended periods of time.

Whether your desire is to improve your chances of fathering a child, return your sex life to loftier heights or build a stronger, more masculine body, Tribulus may be of some benefit. Most importantly, Tribulus is a completely natural alternative to some conventional methods employed for increasing virility, fertility and masculinity.



K.M. Arsyad
Medical Biology Division of Andrology, University of Sriwijaya, Indonesia (1996)
Medika 22 (8): 614-618 (1996)

SUMMARY

This study was conducted to assess the effectiveness of a certain dosage and period of administration of Libilov (protodioscin) on sperm quality and quantity in men with moderate idiopathic oligozoospermia. This study also evaluated protodioscin's effect on libido, erection, ejaculation and orgasm. Lastly, We also determined the length of time that the beneficial effects of the treatment lasted after administration of the preparation was stopped.

Our result showed that oral Libilov treatment with the dose of 3 x 2 tablets per day for 60 days could:
- increase sperm quantity and quality in men diagnosed with moderate idiopathic oligozoospermia
- restore and enhance libido, erection, ejaculation, and orgasm of sexual intercourse, as compared to before the treatment. This result was obtained in more than 80% of the treated patients.

L. Setiawan
Airlangga University, Surabaya, Indonesia (1996)

SUMMARY

Here we investigated the effects of Tribulus terrestris L. on sperm morphology and acrosome reaction in subjects with oligoasthenoteratozoospermia. A double-blind placebo-controlled trial was performed with 30 primary and secondary infertile men. Half received oral Tribulus (Libilov, 500mg dose) three times per day for 60 days, and the rest were given sugar pills. The ejaculate volume, sperm concentration, morphology, acrosome reactions, and other parameters were evaluated before and after treatment.

A significant increase in the percentage of slow or sluggish progressive motile sperm in the treated group was observed when compared to the control group. The percentage of the sperm with normal acrosome reaction was also increased, whereas the percentage of immotile sperm decreased significantly.

The frequency of sexual intercourse was also increased significantly in the Tribulus group. No side effect was observed. We concluded that Tribulus terrestris L., given at 500mg three times a day for 60 days proved to be effective in restoring some of the sperm functions, such as motility and acrosome reactions.

Alex Santoso, PH.D.
Tribulus has been used as traditional medicine to treat sexual dysfunction and male infertility in Europe and Asia for many decades, before improvement in scientific extraction techniques allowed identification of its active ingredient called protodioscin.

More than nine clinical studies performed by six universities and academic hospitals on this purified extract have confirmed the herb's beneficial effect. These studies showed that Tribulus helps treat impotence caused by low testosterone level or an imbalance in the body's level of sex hormones. The active ingredient of Tribulus acts as a natural precursor to these hormones, and is converted into its final forms by the body's own natural enzymes.

Other studies have suggested that Tribulus also acts by increasing the level of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), a naturally occurring substance in the body believed to be important for a healthy sex drive.

In all, these studies proved that Tribulus works very well in curing sexual dysfunctions and maximizing sexual performance when taken regularly (it does not work immediately, however; Tribulus shows positive effects only after two to three months). No known side effects are linked with this herb.

A note of caution: although there are many Tribulus extracts available over the counter today, almost all of these have been found not to contain any significant amount of the active ingredient. Be sure to select a Tribulus extract that contains at least 45% protodioscin.


Tribulus has been used as traditional medicine to treat sexual dysfunction and male infertility in Europe and Asia for many decades, before improvement in scientific extraction techniques allowed identification of its active ingredient called protodioscin.

More than nine clinical studies performed by six universities and academic hospitals on this purified extract have confirmed the herb's beneficial effect. These studies showed that Tribulus helps treat impotence caused by low testosterone level or an imbalance in the body's level of sex hormones. The active ingredient of Tribulus acts as a natural precursor to these hormones, and is converted into its final forms by the body's own natural enzymes.

Other studies have suggested that Tribulus also acts by increasing the level of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), a naturally occurring substance in the body believed to be important for a healthy sex drive.

In all, these studies proved that Tribulus works very well in curing sexual dysfunctions and maximizing sexual performance when taken regularly (it does not work immediately, however; Tribulus shows positive effects only after two to three months). No known side effects are linked with this herb.

A note of caution: although there are many Tribulus extracts available over the counter today, almost all of these have been found not to contain any significant amount of the active ingredient. Be sure to select a Tribulus extract that contains at least 45% protodioscin.

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