professional help needed ..tribuls dangers..where are u smart guys plz answer

[macro]

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

Well gyno doesn't just appear cause its "Tuesday", there's reasons why one could get gyno and to be honest the list isn't that long.

your right, gyno appears because tribulus extracts contain phytoestrogens and perhaps estrogenic pesticide residue like DDT.

as note in third world countries where these studies take place it is possible that the phytoestrogenic effects of tribulus may actually be less suppressive than the environmental estrogens(chemical waste, pesticides, etc) that have caused third world fertility rates to drop substantially, some estimates say by 50% or more.

so in that respect it might work for someone with the same kind of problem. the other data do show that it does not have any LH raising, testosterone stimulating or androgenic activity in young normal men.

can repost the studies on the link.

[Curlingcadys]

1stYou obviously didn't read all the studies, 2nd you'll ride your little study to the death regardless of real world personal results/reviews or multiple studies that prove the effectivness of trib so it doesn't pay to argue with you. So I'll let you be in your own little world I've spoken and proved my points of it's help/efectiveness -so like I said before there's just a whole lot of coincidence going on when people have used it and report good results?

*pats macro on the head* "It'll be ok little guy just go lay in your bed"

[macro]

so you feel its appropriate to be condescending when you post 2 unpublished indonesian studies, that dont even say that it increases LH or testosterone. Merely that it increases sperm viability and libido. Both of which can be attributable to mixed oestrogenic or mixed progestenic action.

whereas the published and peer reviewed study in the journal of ethnopharmacology found that it does not raise testosterone or stimulate LH release.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23.

The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. neychev@dir.bg

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.


just because interested parties, like the companies that make tribestan or the companies that make the raw materials, pay people to write articles does not mean that they have any scientific merit.

now this study here indicates that tribulus action might be due to dopamine suppression (though not neccesarily- its an interesting study none the less)

Res Vet Sci. 1987 Nov;43(3):347-50. Related Articles, Links


A novel nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder in sheep affected by Tribulus terrestris staggers.

Bourke CA.

New South Wales Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research and Veterinary Centre, Australia.

An investigation was carried out into the pathogenesis of a unique locomotory disorder of sheep. Thirty sheep which had exhibited clinical signs for more than 15 months were examined for the presence of muscle atrophy, limb paresis, and spontaneous rotational behaviour. A single large dose of levodopa was administered to 12 normal and 12 affected sheep, and the drug-related effects of sedation and excitation were monitored continuously for three hours. The striatum was removed from eight normal and eight affected sheep and assayed for dopamine (DA) and 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC). The findings of asymmetrical atrophy of pelvic limb extensor muscles, asymmetrical paresis of the limbs, a left:right dominance ratio of 50:50, spontaneous rotational behaviour, decreased response to levodopa loading, and decreased levels of DA (19 per cent reduction) and DOPAC (30 per cent reduction) in the striatum of affected sheep, were interpreted as indicative of a primary nigrostriatal dopaminergic disorder. It is suggested that a striatal presynaptic receptor malfunction has occurred.

[macro]

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15. Related Articles, Links


The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.

Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

[macro]

Ann Acad Med Singapore. 2000 Jan;29(1):22-6. Related Articles, Links


Proerectile pharmacological effects of Tribulus terrestris extract on the rabbit corpus cavernosum.

Adaikan PG, Gauthaman K, Prasad RN, Ng SC.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore. obgadaik@nus.edu.sg

INTRODUCTION: The objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of oral treatment of Tribulus terrestris (TT) extract on the isolated corpus cavernosal tissue of New Zealand white (NZW) rabbits and to determine the mechanism by which protodioscin (PTN), a constituent of the TT, exerts its pharmacological effects. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Twenty-four NZW rabbits were randomly assigned to 4 experimental groups of 6 each. Group I served as control. Groups II to IV were treated with the extract at different dose levels, i.e. 2.5 mg/kg, 5 mg/kg and 10 mg/kg body weight, respectively. The TT extract was administered orally, once daily, for a period of 8 weeks. The rabbits were then sacrificed and their penile tissue isolated to evaluate the responses to both contracting and relaxing pharmacological agents and electrical field stimulation (EFS). RESULTS: PTN on its own had no effect on the isolated corpus cavernosal strips. The relaxant responses to EFS, acetylcholine and nitroglycerin in noradrenaline precontracted tissues from treated groups showed an increase in relaxation of a concentration dependent nature compared to that of the tissues from control group. However, the contractile, anti-erectile response of corpus cavernosal tissue to noradrenaline and histamine showed no significant change between the treatment and the control groups. CONCLUSIONS: The relaxant responses to acetylcholine, nitroglycerin and EFS by more than 10%, 24% and 10% respectively compared to their control values and the lack of such effect on the contractile response to noradrenaline and histamine indicate that PTN has a proerectile activity. The enhanced relaxant effect observed is probably due to increase in the release of nitric oxide from the endothelium and nitrergic nerve endings, which may account for its claims as an aphrodisiac. However, further study is needed to clarify the precise mechanism of its action.

[Curlingcadys]

Originally Posted by macro

so you feel its appropriate to be condescending

Relax I was just being a smart asss don't get all mad on me now.
So like I mentioned before ( and you keep avoiding) are all the people who have had needed the "test boost" for a lack of better terms,whether it be cause they came off cycle or naturaly have low levels ect.. and claimed it helped- are full of shiit, pure coincidence, mind over matter? What then, if tribs advertised purpose is false, then whats responsible for the mild success they had? I say mild cause- well it is I don't want somebody thinking its magic reading this.

[macro]

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

Relax I was just being a smart asss don't get all mad on me now.
So like I mentioned before ( and you keep avoiding) are all the people who have had needed the "test boost" for a lack of better terms,whether it be cause they came off cycle or naturaly have low levels ect.. and claimed it helped- are full of shiit, pure coincidence, mind over matter? What then, if tribs advertised purpose is false, then whats responsible for the mild success they had? I say mild cause- well it is I don't want somebody thinking its magic reading this.

placebo(believing it alone is all some people need) or spiked material (see other thread).
or as mentioned in some people perhaps mild oestrogenic activity that acted as blockade for stronger Xenoestrogens with lower binding affinity. or some other tertiary reason (dopaminergic activity), etcc...

probably a combination of all those scenarios (and some not even contemplated)

[pimpachu]

I get gyno everynight, but she leaves in the morning! hahaha



Wow I crack myself up. As for Trib it works for sure no doubt in my mind. And I have read studied that Glutamine doesn't work either as well as independatn studies that CEE doesn't even exist. All lies in my opinion.


I once took an unreasonably high amount of 6OXO and TRIB together, I felt great haha.

Disclaimer; DONT DO WHAT I DID. HAHA

[macro]

there are no legitimate studies that say CEE does not exist. (this is a disinformation article that was put out by the distributors of krealkayn- whose sales CEE have nearly destroyed) There are no studies that show its effectiveness either.

HOWEVER, there are studies that show the effective delivery of similar drugs to the plasma using the same ethyl ester technology.