Weight Gainers, Whey, and MRP: All needed?

[BassG]

Is it necessary to use all of the above items? Don't weight gainers and meal replacements usually have whey in them, for example? I am prepared to purchase and use all three; but if it is not necessary, the I obviously would rather not. I know some of you make your own wieght gainers; but I am content with using a packaged form. So then, which of these do I need?

[abear]

of course its not necessary. use of any of these will not make or break results on their own IF ones nutrition is up to par. for those who have trouble getting the calories, proteins, etc then they come in handy

what do you need? just total calories or just protein?

[BassG]

Calories or Protien? I need both.

What I am wondering is if one of these basically 'includes' the other. For example, by using weight gainers and meal replacements, will I get all the protien I would get from the whey protien shakes, thus making the whey protien shakes redundent? I know that 'whey' protien is special, and that weight gainers and meal replacement likely will not supply that kind of protien; but perhaps there are brands of weight gainers and meal replacements that do offer sufficient amounts of whey protien in them.

I just want to make I am not going to be over-doing it by using all three.

[joe526]

I think you should do some more research as you seem very confused. My guess is that you haven't been working out very long. Just use a whey protein shake and get your diet in order. To me it sounds like your diets isn't good and your not getting bigger so you want to jump on the supplement train. Most weightgainers will just make you fat anyways. Just eat more and eat better foods. You'll grow, trust me.

[BassG]

Well, you see, I have done some research; and as a result of it, I am a little confused about something ... which is why I am here asking a question.

I have been lifting on and off for 16 years, with various levels of intensity. I am one of those who will NOT gain mass with a regular diet, however. You are right that I have never really gained the mass I wanted to; but I have used protien shakes before. I would like to get a more thorough diet (including supplements) going, as I have never really devoted enough attention to it.

I don't know how I can more clearly ask the simple question, but I will try:

Do one of the products I listed usually contain one of the others already? For example, is a Meal Replacement basically a whey protien shake plus a lot more? Is a weight gainer basically a meal replacement with extra calories.

Simple question; simple answer.

[joe526]

Whey protein and a proper diet. Nuff said.. Weightgainers are a waste of money. Either way you will still need whey and a gainer if you go that route. Need whey for right after workout. If you go the gainer route, good luck with the gained fat

[LTRIK]

Trouble gaining weight? It is usually a matter of input versus output. First, what is your BMR? From there, add 500 calories per day, then decide if that is working, i.e., gaining weight.

MRP's vs Protein powders? Generally MRP's contain, ostensibly, enough nutrients to replace a meal, and thus, usually more $. Some are better then others. The MRP's that contain complex carbs (not malo dex, etc.) are far better. I use the Labrada MRP as well as LEAN MASS - by prolab; both containing the better carb source. Hope this helps.

[abear]

Originally Posted by BassG

Well, you see, I have done some research; and as a result of it, I am a little confused about something ... which is why I am here asking a question.

I have been lifting on and off for 16 years, with various levels of intensity. I am one of those who will NOT gain mass with a regular diet, however. You are right that I have never really gained the mass I wanted to; but I have used protien shakes before. I would like to get a more thorough diet (including supplements) going, as I have never really devoted enough attention to it.

I don't know how I can more clearly ask the simple question, but I will try:

Do one of the products I listed usually contain one of the others already? For example, is a Meal Replacement basically a whey protien shake plus a lot more? Is a weight gainer basically a meal replacement with extra calories.

Simple question; simple answer.

look at the ingredients. post-training shakes, meal replacement shakes, weight gain shakes and even weight loss shakes are just mostly whey and maltodextrin. sounds like these are some good stuff but truely its just that they're cheap ingredients.

the reason i asked earlier if you wanted protein or total calories is because some ppl want just protein and will use a weight gainer because some have like 50 grams in there. but they're also getting a ton of sugar and they then wonder why they're gaining weight all of a sudden.

so all those shakes i mentioned earlier are pretty much the same thing save for total caloric content. you say you didnt have much luck with a regular diet and i think we can all tell you that none of us eat a "regular" diet or at least what the majority considered regular.

maybe post up your meal plan and we can each take turns throwing it against the wall to see what sticks

[LTRIK]

Originally Posted by abear

look at the ingredients. post-training shakes, meal replacement shakes, weight gain shakes and even weight loss shakes are just mostly whey and maltodextrin. sounds like these are some good stuff but truely its just that they're cheap ingredients.

Not completely true. PROLAB - LEAN MASS COMPLEX and LABRADA - LEAN BODY, MRP's (Carb portion) are made of oats, barely, brain, etc., and refrain from Maltodextrin; they are superior to the MRP's that do not (ones you are referring to). And, there protein is not whey; it is a mixture - although you DO want whey in the morning and directly after a workout. Not all proteins and definitely not all MRPS - are the same.

[abear]

Originally Posted by LTRIK

Not completely true. PROLAB - LEAN MASS COMPLEX and LABRADA - LEAN BODY, MRP's (Carb portion) are made of oats, barely, brain, etc., and refrain from Maltodextrin; they are superior to the MRP's that do not (ones you are referring to). And, there protein is not whey; it is a mixture - although you DO want whey in the morning and directly after a workout. Not all proteins and definitely not all MRPS - are the same.

'
exactly, i agree with you. the word i used was MOSTLY which means

1. For the greatest part; mainly.
2. Generally; usually.

[LTRIK]

Originally Posted by abear

'
exactly. the word i used was MOSTLY which means

1. For the greatest part; mainly.
2. Generally; usually.

and you dont need whey first thing in the morning and directly after training. you can use it but its not completely necessary.

OK, but the connotation seemed to be negative; just a matter of semantics. And, by the way, I am versed in the English language, and I do know the meaning of "mostly." But since you wanted to play that game, my answer was, if you remember, "not completely true," which -by the way- supports your statement of "mostly," yet still justifies my answer. The entire issue was to give the man some help, right? So, although you answer was MOSTLY true, it was not completely true. Even your assertion of "mostly" is, of course, debatable. I was simply given him examples of MRP's that were - in fact - devoid of the ingredients you vilified.

Now, as for not needing whey in the morning after a workout - I am sure many would disagree. Whey is a fast acting protein, and especially after training (and in the AM) - your body, if it has burned through its muscle glycogen storages, it "can" go into a catabolic state, thus, using muscle as energy, something that is deleterious to your desire to build that very muscle. So, whey (and carbs) can supersede that state, thus, whey is often desired, and needed, to begin the muscle repair process. You can use egg or a mixture (calcium caseinate milk) protein, but that is a slow protein and better to be used later in the day. So, before we split hairs, of course it is not needed; in fact, nothing is needed if you follow that deductive logic - nonetheless, whey does make sense directly after a work out.

[abear]

my bad. i should have put a joking smiley instead of a winking smiley. i meant it to be taken as comical, not anything negative so i apologize to you for that

now of course, you're aware that it doesnt matter if whey or casein is taken after training. a whey/casein mix has been shown to outperform whey after training in some circles and to come out evenly in others. so simply fat-free chocolate milk would fit the bill instead of buying whey protein powder.

[LTRIK]

Originally Posted by abear

my bad. i should have put a joking smiley instead of a winking smiley. i meant it to be taken as comical, not anything negative so i apologize to you for that

now of course, you're aware that it doesnt matter if whey or casein is taken after training. a whey/casein mix has been shown to outperform whey after training in some circles and to come out evenly in others. so simply fat-free chocolate milk would fit the bill instead of buying whey protein powder.

Sorry my friend - I thought indeed it was a slam at me. I offer a return apology - please accept it; my bad.

Mea Culpa,
Eric

PS) yes, a mix of whey and casein is suitable for after training - I agree with that.

[BassG]

maybe post up your meal plan and we can each take turns throwing it against the wall to see what sticks

Ok here goes:

Meal 1 (9:30): 2 Eggs (omlette w/ some cheese); 8oz Skim milk Whey Protien Shake (creatine added)

Workout 10:00 - 11:00

Meal 2 (11:30): 1 serving of Mypolex original

Meal 3 (2:30): Lunch (various meals); 8oz Skim milk Whey Protien Shake (Flaz Seed Oil added)

Out on business

Meal 4 (8:00): Dinner (various meals): 8oz Skim milk Whey Protien Shake

Meal 5 (11:00): N-large2 Weight Gainer w/16oz water


I know the recommended routine is 6 meals per day, but it is really inconvenient to have a 'meal' during business hours. Also, I know that I am using more whey protien shakes than usual; but it is sort of a budget thing (myoplex is expensive; and weight gainer has too much calories and carbs to have twice a day).

Currently, I am shooting for roughly the following amounts per day:

2900 calories
290g protien
217g carbs
96g of fat

[Weecrack]

Honestly this is just me though , I think your drinking too many of those shakes, id try to replace one of those with another large snack or a small meal, just my opinion though

[LTRIK]

N-large2 Weight Gainer w/16oz water


Avoid this as your last meal - to many calories and carbs before bed. Perhaps put your Mylopex as your last meal.