glutamine

[pnico]

Fadi,

Out of curiosity, where did you find the info that glutamine doesnt get through the stomach?
There are a few good glutamine products out there that arent just regular L-glutamine.

What kind of product do you use?
If you are using regular l-glutamine, then no, most of it wont go where it is supposed to go.

As far as I see, many companies still use glutamuine because it is effective and benefitial to those that lift heavy and frequently..

BCAA's for instance that have been clinically proven to help with training recovery include a nice amount of glutamine, so where that came from im curious to know..

[TRAZ]

You probably should have made this post a PM.

[abear]

from research on glutamine

Studies involving oral ingestion of stable isotope-labelled glutamine indicate that 50–70% of enterally administered glutamine is taken up during first pass by splanchnic organs (gut and liver) (Matthews, Marano, & Campbell, 1993) where it is largely oxidized (Haisch, Fukagawa, & Matthews, 2000).

a good case can be made for pre-contest bodybuilders using it, but not so much for the rest of us trying to gain size and eating accordingly

[fadi]

Thanks abear

pnico, glutamine was a hot supplement up to about a year or a year a half ago when research showed it does not survive the digestive system, at least not in an amount enough to make a significant difference in your daily intake. I had a discussion with Patrick Arnold about it and he confirmed this and said he does not understand why people still taking it.

Now having that said, that does not mean it is completely destroyed, it just wouldn't give you the benefits people thought glutamine would produce.

[pnico]

Incase you didnt know Fadi,
Patrick Arnlod is incorrect.
Patrick stublmed across some good stuff years ago and has helped pioneer the industry. Since that time though, he has been starving for attention and is getting nailed all over the web by scientists on that foolish claim he made.

this information is not comng form me directly, but from a close friend whos an RD that knows patrick and has worked with him over the years.

also, I asked rodney dupont of nutrabolics the same question, and he thought I was joking with him.

The fact is that there are different glutamines out there in the sense that they arent in the correct form to be absorbed correctly and are relatively inexpensive.

for instance, protein is not all created equal.
You can't supplement your body with soy protein after a workout because you absorb non of it since its molecular size is too large and the body doesnt have the enzymes to break it down.

I have been using Alpha glutamine by bionutritional research group and have n fact seen and felt the differences when on it as opposed to off of it.

A lot of people also dont feel tribulus works. I feel it does for me and my size increases and increase in strength are prooof. Also, I dont mix supplements so therefore I know what is doing what..

[TRAZ]

Nope....stomach acid destroys Glutamine.....

[fadi]

I'm sorry, but Rodney is in no way is qualified. He is a pure salesperson and nothing more. You cannot call a scientist incorrect based on a sales person's reply. There is another thread going about glutamine and the science behind it.

[pnico]

traz,
nope, you are incorrect.
And fadi, explain to me why in my setting, the burn unit of a hospitol, we have been giving it to burn victims for years and have been getting great results in immune function response, muscle wasting prevetion and clarity of thought?

I work as an RD in a hospitol and have a side fitness business and clients have seen great results from it..
are my clients in both settings wrong? is patrick arnlod right?
and out of curiosity, since when did patrick arnlod qualify as a pure scientist?
and what possess you to say rodney is a salesman and arnold is a GREAT scientist??

they are both salesman in their own way..plain and simple

[nattybber]

Interesting stuff on both sides of the issue. I will use glutamine as long as i get it free, if i ever have to start paying for it I won't use it. Along the same lines do any of you know how much glut. interferes with other supplements that one might take? just curious i have heard that it does interfere. thanks.

[TRAZ]

I work in a hospital as well and I have done signfigant research on Glutamine....all of the studies I have read recently have stated that it is destroyed (mostly) by digestion.....I also realize that many still choose to use it.....to each his own.....

[pnico]

So tell me fadi, are ALL of these references false because patrick arnold, says its useless??
Please
dont get me started on the countless references I have from scientsits and PhD's alike claiming how effective it is through my course material..people that make your boy patrick seem like an amateur.. and I happent to like some of ergopharms products but sorry, he doesnt hold a candle to a other scientists..

"Even though L-Glutamine is a very important part of a bodybuilders' supplementation, L-Glutamine isn't only for bodybuilders. Glutamine is essential for maintaining intestinal function and aiding in the immune response as well. After glutamine is synthesized in skeletal muscle it is released into the bloodstream and transported to the kidney, liver and small intestine and cells of the immune system where it plays another vital role"


Supplementation "Bodybuilding For You", 2002
Glutamine FAQ's "The Ministry of Fitness", 2000
Glutamine Q&A "Pas-Fitness", New Castle, DE, 2002
"The Healing Nutrients Within", E R Braverman & C C Pfeiffer, Keats, 1987.
Elia M, Lunn PG. The use of glutamine in the treatment of gastrointestinal disorders in man. Nutrition, 13;7-8:743-747 1997.
Keast D, et al. depression of plasma glutamine concentration after exercise stress and its possible influence on the immune system. Med J Aust, 162;1:15-18 1995.
Quest Health Library, "l-glutamine", 2000.

[fadi]

How much glutamine are the burn victims are receiving? the regular BBer dosage? and in the same delivery mechanism?

First of all, I doubt the hospital is buying L-Glutamine from supplement companies. Second, you cannot compare patients in need of serious medical needs to athlete needs because patients may benefit from traces of certain amino acids while it will not make much difference for athletes due to athletes diet and nutrition. Remember that glutamine is an amino acid and athletes get it in their whey protein.

My argument is based on medical studies that were made in 2002 and the other post cites them. I am not making this **** up nor do I care what a sales person's opinion about it.

Now, is PA a scientist? absolutely. He is a well known scientist and he is referred to as such in news papers. He performs his own research and introduced compounds to the industry that were not previously known or used based on his research. You don't exactly go to "scientist" school to become a scientist. Not to mention he is a chemist to begin with which would give him much higher qualifications than Rodney who's degree and background is what exactly?

I'm not sure why you are arguing with me about this, I could careless if you use glutamine or not.

[fadi]

Originally Posted by pnico

Supplementation "Bodybuilding For You", 2002
Glutamine FAQ's "The Ministry of Fitness", 2000
Glutamine Q&A "Pas-Fitness", New Castle, DE, 2002
"The Healing Nutrients Within", E R Braverman & C C Pfeiffer, Keats, 1987.
Elia M, Lunn PG. The use of glutamine in the treatment of gastrointestinal disorders in man. Nutrition, 13;7-8:743-747 1997.
Keast D, et al. depression of plasma glutamine concentration after exercise stress and its possible influence on the immune system. Med J Aust, 162;1:15-18 1995.
Quest Health Library, "l-glutamine", 2000.

You are quoting Glutamine FAQs and BBer websites for your argument about medical research? are you kidding me? The only reference that looks like a medical research I see there goes back 8 to 9 years? Dude, learn how to research and make an argument.

AGAIN LOOK AT THE OTHER POST THAT CITES LATEST RESEARCH DONE IN 2002

Come to think of it, you lost all credibility with me by citing a stinking FAQ

[pnico]

im so sorry to hear i lost all credibility with you.. dam shame..couldnt care less.

dont even tell me about my job dude, u know nothing about burn victims and yes genius, they need more glutamine than bodybuilders.. are yo going to argue that too?

and for you to say that in whey protein delivers enough glutamine to do any good is completely incorrect..
and who are you to judge rodney dupont?? are you a chemist?

but then im done with you
later

i will continue to use glutamine because unlike yourself, ive seen and felt the benefits of it despite your boy pa's obsurd claims

[fadi]

Yet you make another ignorant post by you. I googled burn victims and the use of glutamine and they take somewhere in the range of 30-40g and I'm sure the doctor would order more if needed. If 10% of the glutamine they took survived, then they would be getting 3-4g. BBers take about 5-10g max pre digestion. Being a nurse does not mean you know **** BTW, assuming you are even that.

As far as the research, I told you twice to look at the research not what PA has said and for some reason you keep ignoring that part. You can take whatever the hell you want, I could care less.

[TRAZ]

Originally Posted by pnico

the burn unit of a hospitol

I work as an RD in a hospitol

You should also probably learn how to spell HOSPITAL! That pretty much either told me you are lying about your employment or that you are a moron. I have worked in a hospital for 7yrs and I damn sure all 3500+ people that work here know how to at least spell hospital......after all it is on the side of the building. Enjoy wasting you money on glutamine.

[abear]

from layne norton

Another thing, many of these IV studies with glutamine that show increases in LBM aren't looking at fractional increases in muscle mass. Meaning they don't look exclusively at muscle mass, they just lump all the body muscle into one category. Well guess what, in AIDS, cancer, & burn victims they all have massive tissue loss from the GI tract, well glutamine is the main fuel for the GI tract cells. So all that muscle that they show glutamine spares, is mostly just GI tract muscle anyway!

and other

training can reduce glutamine levels... but the fact remains that ORAL GLUTAMINE ingestion is essentially useless as around 80%-90% of it is lost to the gut. It is a non essential amino acid ((NEAA) meaning the body can make it, thus when NEAA's are ingested, the gut strips them to their carbon skelaton and synthesizes the NEAA's from these carbon structures on an AS NEEDED basis. If this were not the case we would all have drastic deficiencies in certain kinds of NEAA's and large surpluses of others.

layne of course is working towards his phd in amino acid metabolism, he's also a natural bodybuilder

[pnico]

screw both of you guys..

[pnico]

"Yet you make another ignorant post by you."

Nice english fadi!
You are the individual that has knocked various products I've tried and work.
Lets say are you believer in tribulus or is that another scam?
Do you know anything about kreb cycle intermediaries?

Do you know about di and tri peptide protein formulas? do you know what stuff is?

Curious to see just know knowledgeable you are to knock my course work.
Are you going to sit there and tell me all protein is created equal too??go ahead..tell me..

Hey Traz, want to talk about a moron? enjoy wasting your time trying to get into a cut throat, nearly impossible to make it in, profession!

[pnico]

fadi,

Do we really know what we are talking about with glutamine??
apparently not.
Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, et al. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance. J Strength Cond Res. 2002;16:157–160

26. Shabert JK, Winslow C, Lacey JM, et al. Glutamine-antioxidant supplementation increases body cell mass in AIDS patients with weight loss: a randomized, double-blind controlled trial. Nutrition. 1999;15:860–864.

20. Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR. The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining. Sports Med. 1996;21:80–97.

21. Castell LM, Newsholme EA. Glutamine and the effects of exhaustive exercise upon the immune response. Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 1998;76:524–532.

22. Castell LM, Newsholme EA. The effects of oral glutamine supplementation on athletes after prolonged, exhaustive exercise. Nutrition. 1997;13:738–742


I could copy stuff from my course material in this board all night.
Truth is, it works and is effective.
and to point something else out to both of your genius minds, I said RD, not RN!
can you tell me what the differences is?

I supposed you are also going to tell me you use fructose with your creatine as opposed to dextrose and they are both the same thing?

"Based on recent research, it is clear that glutamine plays a crucial role in anticatabolism and anabolism. It also plays a strong role in the integrity of the immune system and intestinal flora. It is believed that these benefits occur from a cellular hydration state that accompanies optimal quantities of intracellular glutamine. If you are interested in increasing performance, muscle mass, or decreasing recovery time, give glutamine a try.
Who knows, it just may be that missing link you've been looking for"

"Bergström, J. V. Jr., Fürst, P., Noree, L.-O., & Vinnars, E. (1974).
Intracellular free amino acid concentration in human muscle tissue. Journal of Applied Physiology, 36, 693.
2. Ziegler, T. R., Smith, R. J., Byrne, T. A., & Wilmore, D. W. (1993). Potential role for glutamine supplementation in nutrition support. Clinical Nutrition, 12 (Suppl 1), S82.
3. Fürst, P. & Stehle, P. (1995). Glutamine and glutamine-containing dipeptides.
In L. A. Cynober (Ed.), Amino acid metabolism and therapy in health and nutritional disease (pp.373-383). Boca Raton: CRC Press.
4. Castell, L. M., Poortmans, J. R., & Newsholme, E. A. (1996). Does glutamine have a role in reducing infections in athletes? European Journal of Applied Physiology, 73 (5), 488-490.
5. Rowbottom, D. G., Keast, D., & Morton, A. R. (1996). The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining. Sports Medicine, 21 (2), 80-97.
6. Haussinger, D., Roth, E., Lang, F. & Gerok, W. (2000). Cellular hydration state: an important determinant of protein catabolism in health and disease. Lancet, 341, 1330.
7. Scislowski, P. W. D., Niblock, A., Lindsay, Y., Weryk, B., Watt, P. W., &
Rennie, M. J. (2003). Glutamine stimulates glycogen synthesis in skeletal muscle. Clinical Nutrition, 8, 80 (abs.).
8. Souba, W. W. (1992). Glutamine physiology, biochemistry and nutrition in critical illness. Austin: R. G. Landes Company.
9. Millward, D. J., Jepson, M. M., & Omer, A. (2004). Muscle glutamine concentrations and protein turnover in vivo in malnutrition and endotoxemia. Metabolism, 38 (8), 6-13.
"

But Fadi and PA say its useless... PLEASE dude.. dont argue with me on this..I will destroy you..
pease out