will cardio reduce mass growth?

[balraj sidhu]

ive been trying to gain mass so ive started eatign alot mroe but now ive gotten alot of belly fat. Many people have opinted it out. I was wondering what kidn of cardio and how much of it can i do with it not affecting my mass gain to much?


Also if some one could hellp me with a good abb routine that would be great

[JayFive]

Abs workouts will do nothing but build the muscle under the fat. I personally prefer frogkicks and V-situps when I do anything. Yes, cardio can hurt growth, try doing HIIT 2-3 times a week when not lifting. I would also examine your diet. If you are gaining A LOT of fat, then you may be eating too much or the wrong stuff.

[Vplayer]

Originally Posted by JayFive

Abs workouts will do nothing but build the muscle under the fat. I personally prefer frogkicks and V-situps when I do anything. Yes, cardio can hurt growth, try doing HIIT 2-3 times a week when not lifting. I would also examine your diet. If you are gaining A LOT of fat, then you may be eating too much or the wrong stuff.

Exactly.

Too much cardio can burn some gains IF the diet does not allow for the amount of cardio. What is too much cardio? There is no number that you can assess to it for everyone. Everything that you do, from lifting a weight to any type of cardio, will require the right foods in the righ amounts to be effective.

Any cardio is good cardio, with some being better than others. The ones that move more than one muscle at a time: mma workouts, swimming, elyptical, etc. will all be better than endless crunches or sit ups or treadmill or whatever that uses only minimal muscles. The trick is burning calories, and the more muscles involved the more calories are burned.

As far as abdominal excercises, people are wasting their time unless they have single digit bodyfat counts. You're cant see abs at over 10-12 percent bodyfat so why waste time working singular muscles like that? By maximizing the cardio output you can reduce the amount of total bodyfat so that when you DO get into the lower digits you can start etching in the abdominals with direct ab exercises. In the mean time, work on strengthening the core with exercises that work the core.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

Exactly.

As far as abdominal excercises, people are wasting their time unless they have single digit bodyfat counts. You're cant see abs at over 10-12 percent bodyfat so why waste time working singular muscles like that? By maximizing the cardio output you can reduce the amount of total bodyfat so that when you DO get into the lower digits you can start etching in the abdominals with direct ab exercises. In the mean time, work on strengthening the core with exercises that work the core.

No, you can't see abs, but working those muscles are critical for Squats and Deads. Without a powerful core, you will not be able to gain in those areas of lifting. You can not tell someone to start working their abs until they can see them, come on man.

That's like saying don't do curls until you can see your bicep.

[JayFive]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

No, you can't see abs, but working those muscles are critical for Squats and Deads. Without a powerful core, you will not be able to gain in those areas of lifting. You can not tell someone to start working their abs until they can see them, come on man.

That's like saying don't do curls until you can see your bicep.

I agree, which is part of the reason I do abs anyway (plus I don't want to take a punch to the stomach like a pansy). But I think what V was trying to get through to the OP (and what the OP was really asking about) was that working your abs to get a six pack is retarded unless you've got the right BF%.

To the OP, you should work your abs to your own preference. There's plenty of workouts for your abs so you can take your pick. Just make sure that YOU enjoy doing it. If it feels like a chore, drop it and pick up a new ab workout, because you won't stick with it otherwise.

Edit: Well, damn I forgot. Cardio is good. You're working your heart that way. The problem with that is you need to get around 75-85% of your MAH so sustaining that might be a problem, not only because it's exhausting but because it can cause you to start eating away at muscle. This is why people recommend HIIT. HIIT still provides your heart an excellent workout (IMO the best reason for cardio) but it also only dips slightly into glycogen stores and promotes dipping into fat stores for the rest of the day for energy. That crappy "brisk walk" BS of cardio annoys me to no end. It's a good way to warm up before a workout, or wind down after but it shouldn't be your main cardio source.

[Vplayer]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

No, you can't see abs, but working those muscles are critical for Squats and Deads. Without a powerful core, you will not be able to gain in those areas of lifting. You can not tell someone to start working their abs until they can see them, come on man.

That's like saying don't do curls until you can see your bicep.

Read my whole post again, junior. That is not what I said. Jay5 got it.

But even then, core strengthening exercises will work the whole abdominal region. If you want to strengthen your abs for squats and deads, you are indeed not maximizing your time if you spend it doing nothing but direct ab work. You said it yourself, a powerful core. What's a core consist of, just the abs?? Or am I just explaining it to simply for ya?

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

Read my whole post again, junior. That is not what I said. Jay5 got it.

But even then, core strengthening exercises will work the whole abdominal region. If you want to strengthen your abs for squats and deads, you are indeed not maximizing your time if you spend it doing nothing but direct ab work. You said it yourself, a powerful core. What's a core consist of, just the abs?? Or am I just explaining it to simply for ya?

no jr., you got it wrong to start with. Maybe if you had a diagram, or were strong, I might get a better understanding.

[jlozan84]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

The trick is burning calories

Wrong - amount of cals burned is not the primary goal of cardio as it relates to fat loss.

Originally Posted by vplayer

By maximizing the cardio output you can reduce the amount of total bodyfat so that when you DO get into the lower digits you can start etching in the abdominals with direct ab exercises.

What? Etching the abs?

Originally Posted by vplayer

In the mean time, work on strengthening the core with exercises that work the core.

Exercises that work the core, like weighted crunches or cable crunches, etc? Isn't that in direct conflict with your next statement below?

Originally Posted by vplayer

As far as abdominal excercises, people are wasting their time unless they have single digit bodyfat counts. You're cant see abs at over 10-12 percent bodyfat so why waste time working singular muscles like that?

So, a powerlifter with 15% bf that can't see the horseshoe in his triceps should not bother with direct tricep work because he can't see it?

Originally Posted by hrpiii

no jr., you got it wrong to start with. Maybe if you had a diagram, or were strong, I might get a better understanding.

lol

[Vplayer]

OOoh..... you guys rock. I am soooooooo owned. Yeah....... pick apart posts so that you can bring out supposed hidden issues or meanings that were never there. You guys rock. And I bet you progress just as well.


Keep on keepin on, I didnt come back to argue with idiots. I'll discuss something respectfully, but not like this. Now I know why this site has the "beginner" reputation that it does and no one takes it seriously. If you guys really want to learn and discuss and maybe teach somebody something (myself included, I never said I knew everything) , I suggest you grow the **** up.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

OOoh..... you guys rock. I am soooooooo owned. Yeah....... pick apart posts so that you can bring out supposed hidden issues or meanings that were never there. You guys rock. And I bet you progress just as well.


Keep on keepin on, I didnt come back to argue with idiots. I'll discuss something respectfully, but not like this. Now I know why this site has the "beginner" reputation that it does and no one takes it seriously. If you guys really want to learn and discuss and maybe teach somebody something (myself included, I never said I knew everything) , I suggest you grow the **** up.

see the problem with you is that you don't know when someone is picking with you. Careful who you call idiot, at 170 lbs, you might get snapped in half. Interesting you don't remember me . And I'm proud to be considered a "beginner" by someone like youself... small. Now what's with all the language? You do know there are kids on this board and profanity is not allowed.

If you would like to compare progress, I would be happy to. I've seen the post with your numbers, and being the size of my workout partner, they are okay at best, but I could make them better, as my partner could attend to.

Maybe this will help you remember who I am...

YouTube - Hank the Tank - 465 lb Bench
(and no, that is not my partner spotting me)

here is my partner 3 wks ago
YouTube - TG 500 DL

..you do know I'm just riding you BigV

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

OOoh..... you guys rock. I am soooooooo owned. Yeah....... pick apart posts so that you can bring out supposed hidden issues or meanings that were never there. You guys rock. And I bet you progress just as well.


Keep on keepin on, I didnt come back to argue with idiots. I'll discuss something respectfully, but not like this. Now I know why this site has the "beginner" reputation that it does and no one takes it seriously. If you guys really want to learn and discuss and maybe teach somebody something (myself included, I never said I knew everything) , I suggest you grow the **** up.

lol, i have no idea who you are but when you start talking down to guys that can strap a bar to you and curl you for reps this threads gonna go nowhere fast.

[Vplayer]

I dont care about anyone else's size or what they can lift or do. All I care about is my own training and progress. Ok at best? Pffft.... is that supposed to "hurt" me?? That's fine with me, Ive never entered into a competition with anyone of you and I never once said I was better than anyone and Ive never talked down to anyone. Im not a bodybuilder, Im a strength and conditioning trainer. Snapped in half? By who? YOU? Not the first time it's hapened and it wont be the last, so come on down any time you want to. My location is right on the screen. You sound like one of those big guys who seem to think size and muscle makes a fighter. So please........come on down. Any time, bro.

This is really funny.......seems as everyone else got what I was saying in my posts except the likes of you, who seem to want to be "the guys" here by disecting posts and making issues of non issues. That's amateur and it shows your own insicurity. But that's fine, I couldnt care any less. BE The Guys. I'll even make a thread in your honor if that's what you want. I came here to see old friends and help out if I could because I was once shown that that's the way to be by an old friend, Boyd Meyers. Through his generousity I have learned what to do and what not to do and also to do my own research, which I now appply to my clients and they work very well. If any of you dont like what I say, then dont apply it to your training or philosophies, it's that simple.

Compare myself to who? You hrpii??? Who are you to me that I would give one flying fuk about wanting to do something like that?? Seriously, who are you that I should care about what you can or cannot do?? You dont lift my weights for me, you dont diet for me, you dont spar for me, you dont roll for me, you dont do anything that would make you a part of my life that I should care about. So you're "better". Trust me, there are a billion people out there better than me, and I know it. The thing is I dont lose sleep at night because of **** like that.

[jlozan84]

Insecurity?

LOL - relax brother. You wrote like 5 paragraphs going on and on and we're insecure.

This isn't personal man - the only reason I posted was to not allow you to continue to spread internet training myths.

Go do some landscaping or something man.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

I dont care about anyone else's size or what they can lift or do. All I care about is my own training and progress. Ok at best? Pffft.... is that supposed to "hurt" me?? That's fine with me, Ive never entered into a competition with anyone of you and I never once said I was better than anyone and Ive never talked down to anyone. Im not a bodybuilder, Im a strength and conditioning trainer. Snapped in half? By who? YOU? Not the first time it's hapened and it wont be the last, so come on down any time you want to. My location is right on the screen. You sound like one of those big guys who seem to think size and muscle makes a fighter. So please........come on down. Any time, bro.

This is really funny.......seems as everyone else got what I was saying in my posts except the likes of you, who seem to want to be "the guys" here by disecting posts and making issues of non issues. That's amateur and it shows your own insicurity. But that's fine, I couldnt care any less. BE The Guys. I'll even make a thread in your honor if that's what you want. I came here to see old friends and help out if I could because I was once shown that that's the way to be by an old friend, Boyd Meyers. Through his generousity I have learned what to do and what not to do and also to do my own research, which I now appply to my clients and they work very well. If any of you dont like what I say, then dont apply it to your training or philosophies, it's that simple.

Compare myself to who? You hrpii??? Who are you to me that I would give one flying fuk about wanting to do something like that?? Seriously, who are you that I should care about what you can or cannot do?? You dont lift my weights for me, you dont diet for me, you dont spar for me, you dont roll for me, you dont do anything that would make you a part of my life that I should care about. So you're "better". Trust me, there are a billion people out there better than me, and I know it. The thing is I dont lose sleep at night because of **** like that.

see, I got it, but wanted to jerk your chain a little. I know boyd, I've trained with boyd on many occassions. ...at his studio and at different gyms in SA. No one cares on this board who lifts what, so come on. It's all about training, so get on over yourself and take a joke brother.

Jlo got it, and Mitch got it.. so what's up V

YEs, and you need to compare yourself to me. When you walk into a gym, do you take advice from the little guy on how to get big, or do you ask the big man how he got big (careful how you answer that, because Boyd is bigger than you..and you took his advice). I know you want to get bigger, or you would quite training. Every man wants to be bigger, every woman wants to be smaller.

Yes, please make another thread about me. I am a Horseman, and no one lives the way we live. And if you don't believe that, call Boyd right now!

[VBigNate]

This thread is hilarious. I remember Violin player when I first joined the site. Hrpii is a true horseman. I've personally met him and Boyd. They are two men with abundant bodybuilding knowledge that I would look to for insight. Oh, and back to the main topic, ab workouts will build the muscle under the fat, like Jay5 said. Cardio can hurt mass gains, but not if you have a proper diet. I have lost 50lbs in the last several months, and I have been able to retain all my mass and strength.

[Vplayer]

*applause*


You guys are funny. Predictable, but funny.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by Vplayer

*applause*


You guys are funny. Predictable, but funny.

you're a good man V, glad to see you back on the boards. I know you bring a lot of knowledge with you.

I had to give you a hard time, it's been a while.

[yumyumcat]

Originally Posted by balraj sidhu

ive been trying to gain mass so ive started eatign alot mroe but now ive gotten alot of belly fat. Many people have opinted it out. I was wondering what kidn of cardio and how much of it can i do with it not affecting my mass gain to much?

You can do your cardio without losing mass as long as you don't go over your target heart rate.

The universal equation is this:
220
-age = Maximum Heart Rate. Now, take 60% - 70% of that number and therein lies your Target Heart Rate. You want to maintain this rate throughout your cardio sessions.

Let's say you're 25 years old. Your Maximum Hear Rate will be 195 (too high and burning muscle) what you want to do is keep it at rate will be in between 117 and 136.

Here's an easy way to keep track of it. Get on your machine and there's always a digital clock. Check your pulse on your cardioid artery. Use two finger and place them on your neck and find it. I'm sure you know where that is Now, just wait till the machine hits 00 or and count until 15 add 100 and say you count 128 beats. You're good to go. You're in between 117 and 136.

If you're serious about getting that dough off, go to the gym before you eat and do 45 minutes of stairs. Then go eat your breakfast

Also if some one could hellp me with a good abb routine that would be great

I do at least 1000 reps a day. There's tons of variations you can do just on the floor, nevermind with wings and off the ball, blah, blah, blah. If you want great abs, do them everyday.

[Merk0135]

blaques

[Meta]

Originally Posted by yumyumcat

You can do your cardio without losing mass as long as you don't go over your target heart rate.

The universal equation is this:
220
-age = Maximum Heart Rate. Now, take 60% - 70% of that number and therein lies your Target Heart Rate. You want to maintain this rate throughout your cardio sessions.

Let's say you're 25 years old. Your Maximum Hear Rate will be 195 (too high and burning muscle) what you want to do is keep it at rate will be in between 117 and 136.

Here's an easy way to keep track of it. Get on your machine and there's always a digital clock. Check your pulse on your cardioid artery. Use two finger and place them on your neck and find it. I'm sure you know where that is Now, just wait till the machine hits 00 or and count until 15 add 100 and say you count 128 beats. You're good to go. You're in between 117 and 136.

hmmmm... I'm not an expert in this area... but this seems wrong to me

going by that formula my target heart rate would 118.8 - 138.6

I've always been under the impression that the best way to burn fat without losing muscle is HIIT... if I'm doing HIIT my heartrate is gonna be above that for sure. I would have to do low intensity cardio in order to keep my heart rate that low. Sooo...