Bulking Contest: General Discussion

[marathon man]

these vary daily but the diet is designed to be roughly similar without getting too dull.

Protein 250 - 300g
Carbs 200 - 250g
Fat 50 - 100g

started 3 weeks ago at 168lbs, now 181lbs, still 31 inch waist, still skinny at 6ft 1"
taking following supps:
reflex instant whey
Kre - alkykin (i dont know how to spell this)
Isa-test
Time release multi vit and mineral horse tablet
chromium picolinate
glucosamine and chrondritin
Reflex and maximuscle protein bars
Reflex - one stop (protein, creatine, digestive enzymes, vits and mins, glutamine etc)
i would like to say that all of these supplements are workin wonders but it is probably just muscle memory kicking in.

Anything else i should take shout away, all advice appreciated

[marathon man]

oh yeah and this is split over 8 meals

[tampabay3990]

Originally Posted by Theguns

lol but what good is that gonna do after the contest?

you still need to eat a pretty good bit when the contest is over...plus if you get any bigger doin this your body is gonna need more fuel than it did before you started just to maintain size...MORE FOOD!!!!

[Theguns]

Well i will gladly put a few bucks in for a pirze as long as everyone else participates.....We just need a way to organize it or sumthing

[musclesntx]

I'd say this - I think most of you are taking too much in right off the bat. Look at it this way: with a slight increase in calories, you're going to gain some weight. So then where do you go? If you're 160 and taking in 3500 cals, what happens when your body adjusts to that? 4000? 5000? If you HONESTLY need that, then hell yeah, go for it. But when you can get the same results from 2700, isn't it more practical to just start as low as you can and STILL make size gains?

One other thing that could make for interesting discussion is that many of you are consuming a ton of protein. I do it, but I weigh closer to 240 than most of you do. Too much protein can hurt protein synthesis, not to mention reduce the effectiveness of your carb intake.

I'm not saying anyone's doing it "wrong", so don't look at it that way. I just believe there are better ways to gain mass without shooting the moon and eating all you can from the start... Your hormone levels will level off...

[Matt58]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

I'd say this - I think most of you are taking too much in right off the bat. Look at it this way: with a slight increase in calories, you're going to gain some weight. So then where do you go? If you're 160 and taking in 3500 cals, what happens when your body adjusts to that? 4000? 5000? If you HONESTLY need that, then hell yeah, go for it. But when you can get the same results from 2700, isn't it more practical to just start as low as you can and STILL make size gains?

One other thing that could make for interesting discussion is that many of you are consuming a ton of protein. I do it, but I weigh closer to 240 than most of you do. Too much protein can hurt protein synthesis, not to mention reduce the effectiveness of your carb intake.

I'm not saying anyone's doing it "wrong", so don't look at it that way. I just believe there are better ways to gain mass without shooting the moon and eating all you can from the start... Your hormone levels will level off...

That's a really good point, thank you for mentioning that because that didn't even cross my mind. lol Would it do good to also zig-zag calories? I just started working again and doing really hard work so on those days I could aim for 3,500+ and days I just lift or do nothing aim for like 2,800.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Matt58

That's a really good point, thank you for mentioning that because that didn't even cross my mind. lol Would it do good to also zig-zag calories? I just started working again and doing really hard work so on those days I could aim for 3,500+ and days I just lift or do nothing aim for like 2,800.

Yes, I would definitely be cycling my calories. I'd stay relatively high for most days (have moderate high and very high days), but definitely have a dip to much lower about every 8th day in your case to make sure I was keeping sensitivity to insulin and Leptin.

That's just a guess based on your physique and what I've picked up from you over the last few months, maybe more or less depending on progress.

[Traps]

I'm glad you brought that up musclesntx. Matt, I was gonna mention something along those lines when you were asking me about creatine, but I decided not too, because I cant find the research that I read about it in the past.

What musclesntx said is true, but I'm gonna take it a step further(whether or not this is a good idea I dont know). I've seen more than one article about how people that cycle their calorie intakes towards extreme tend to be healthier and live longer lives. With that in mind, a couple years ago, I read an article that suggested something like carb cycling every two weeks. Massively high cals followed by extremely low cals(very low carbs, high protein, basically a keto diet). The author had theories that basically suggested a massive hormonal upswing above and beyond normal levels during the high cal phase, in response to breaking your body's starvation mode.

The author stressed many times during the starvation mode to take volume easy, keep protein super high to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible.

Damn, I'll try to find it again......it was interesting.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

I'm glad you brought that up musclesntx. Matt, I was gonna mention something along those lines when you were asking me about creatine, but I decided not too, because I cant find the research that I read about it in the past.

What musclesntx said is true, but I'm gonna take it a step further(whether or not this is a good idea I dont know). I've seen more than one article about how people that cycle their calorie intakes towards extreme tend to be healthier and live longer lives. With that in mind, a couple years ago, I read an article that suggested something like carb cycling every two weeks. Massively high cals followed by extremely low cals(very low carbs, high protein, basically a keto diet). The author had theories that basically suggested a massive hormonal upswing above and beyond normal levels during the high cal phase, in response to breaking your body's starvation mode.

The author stressed many times during the starvation mode to take volume easy, keep protein super high to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible.

Damn, I'll try to find it again......it was interesting.

Traps, you're referring to something similar to the Anabolic Burst Cycling Diet (2 weeks on/2 weeks off). I prefer not to go on 2 weeks, because for me, I feel like sh!t eating that high for 2 weeks straight and then trying to break that and nearly starve for 2 weeks. Some people handle it well, I don't.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by Traps

I'm glad you brought that up musclesntx. Matt, I was gonna mention something along those lines when you were asking me about creatine, but I decided not too, because I cant find the research that I read about it in the past.

What musclesntx said is true, but I'm gonna take it a step further(whether or not this is a good idea I dont know). I've seen more than one article about how people that cycle their calorie intakes towards extreme tend to be healthier and live longer lives. With that in mind, a couple years ago, I read an article that suggested something like carb cycling every two weeks. Massively high cals followed by extremely low cals(very low carbs, high protein, basically a keto diet). The author had theories that basically suggested a massive hormonal upswing above and beyond normal levels during the high cal phase, in response to breaking your body's starvation mode.

The author stressed many times during the starvation mode to take volume easy, keep protein super high to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible.

Damn, I'll try to find it again......it was interesting.

It was in your GI/II thread somewhere.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

It was in your GI/II thread somewhere.

I dont think so mitch..... The gi/ii thread mentioned how your insulin sensitivity declines over a period of time on a bulking diet. I think musclesntx understands what I was talking about. I tried looking for the article I read a long time ago, but I cant find it. I only ran across it, a couple years ago, because there was a thread at bb4u where one of the posts had a link to it.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

Traps, you're referring to something similar to the Anabolic Burst Cycling Diet (2 weeks on/2 weeks off). I prefer not to go on 2 weeks, because for me, I feel like sh!t eating that high for 2 weeks straight and then trying to break that and nearly starve for 2 weeks. Some people handle it well, I don't.

You know what. I think you nailed it musclesntx!

I dont think this is the original article I read, but after a very quick skim(about 30 seconds) I'm pretty sure the concept is the same. This is certainly nothing new, and may have been debunked in the years since its original publication, or it may not be widely known simply because its very difficult. Dunno.

Part 1
Muscle Media

Part 2
Muscle Media

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by Traps

I dont think so mitch..... The gi/ii thread mentioned how your insulin sensitivity declines over a period of time on a bulking diet. I think musclesntx understands what I was talking about. I tried looking for the article I read a long time ago, but I cant find it. I only ran across it, a couple years ago, because there was a thread at bb4u where one of the posts had a link to it.

Sure it is. i found it in this post in the related links.

Glycemic/Insulin Index and Diet

Click on any of the links like this one:
Insulin Index - Controlling Your Insulin :: Nutrition :: Basic

ANd youll find this in the realated links at the bottom:
Anabolic Burst Cycle Principle :: Nutrition :: Basic

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

You know what. I think you nailed it musclesntx!

I dont think this is the original article I read, but after a very quick skim(about 30 seconds) I'm pretty sure the concept is the same. This is certainly nothing new, and may have been debunked in the years since its original publication, or it may not be widely known simply because its very difficult. Dunno.

Part 1
Muscle Media

Part 2
Muscle Media

I forgot that it was in MM, but it makes sense, because the guy that introduced it spoke about it at a convention thing I went to probably 10 years ago... His thing was to flat out binge eat for 2 weeks on and then be on a bb show prep diet for 2 weeks. I tailored a few workouts for people who wanted to follow it giving them their exact cardio and training regimens for each specific cycle and they seemed to make good gains.

I think my clients now that follow my carb cycling principles make better gains without the huge swings (mood, diet, etc). I mean, they nail fat burning without muscle loss (usually gains) when that is their primary goal or they gain lots of muscle with no fat gain - cutting their time down to looking good naked by more than half.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Sure it is. i found it in this post in the related links.

Glycemic/Insulin Index and Diet

Click on any of the links like this one:
Insulin Index - Controlling Your Insulin :: Nutrition :: Basic

ANd youll find this in the realated links at the bottom:
Anabolic Burst Cycle Principle :: Nutrition :: Basic

Oh sh*t your right. My bad. Its not part of the insulin article, but is a link under the related articles section at the bottom. Obviously I didnt read any of the related articles, but I will tonight. Cool man, thanks!

[Weee]

I'm still waiting for someone to figure out how to make the Pizza-bolic diet work for me.

[wnxmaximus]

I am sure that would be effective. BUt i would rather do this type of thing on a smaller scale every few days or so. I would find it extremely hard to go low carb for an entire 2 weeks. I am sure some can do it, well i could do it, but is it necessary to still make good gains. I am trying to keep almost all sugar out of my diet (except morning, pre and post workout) and then on certain days when i dont life, try to keep sugar under 20 grams or so for the entire day. Maybe no effective as this whole 2 week on and off thing, but i am already to the point of being able to tell a difference when i do finally increase my carbs. Im not so desensitized to my insulin any more.

[Traps]

I think I'd like to try this anabolic burst diet. Not too sure if or how I could do this with my current DFT routine. Not too mention my piss poor skills and eating.

[musclesntx]

Originally Posted by Traps

I think I'd like to try this anabolic burst diet. Not too sure if or how I could do this with my current DFT routine. Not too mention my piss poor skills and eating.

With what you're doing, it wouldn't make much sense...
Design the diet around your training, not training around your diet.

[Traps]

Originally Posted by musclesntx

With what you're doing, it wouldn't make much sense...
Design the diet around your training, not training around your diet.

Yeah, I didnt really see how I could make it work...... Maybe I'll try the diet in the near future, once my progression stalls out.