An older lifter looking to make a change (PH cycle)

[twiceborn]

Hey everyone, I'm here looking for some advice from some of the more experienced members here.

I am an older guy who had been "around the block" so to speak, and I am ready to make a change in my approach to training.

I'm lifetime "natural" (13 years training experience), and have never used anything more than food for a supplement. I wanted to give myself a chance to reap whatever natural gains I could from my body, and now those gains are just about dried up.

My recovery ability is drying up at this stage of the game. A single workout will kick my ass for 3-4 days afterwards, and I can't sleep worth a ****. Its really effecting my professional life (I am an RN and work 3rd shift) , and I find myself being very lazy in my personal responsibilities. Where I used to have energy for all the minor things, now I have none.

My main training weights from the last two weeks were:

- 510lb x1 raw floor press
- 630lb x3 raw back squat
- 740lb x1 raw deadlift

...so yeah, kinda heavy, and a royal ***** to recover from. These are the only three sessions I have had in two weeks because I need the days in between to recover. Add that to work and I am one dead-tired son of a *****.

My question is what can an older lifter take to get back some recovery ability? Do PH cycles give the same feeling of well-being that I have heard about from people using full on hormone replacement? Are they even worth it for this?

Are there any PH's still being sold which fit the bill?

As for full on steroids, I would like to stay with PH's while they are still semi-legal and available.

Right now my lifting can stay where it is, I don't care about strength improvement. I really just want to be able to maintain my current ability, lose 20lbs, and not feel like a dead dog every morning.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks to you all.


- Age:
I am 30 years old.
- Size:
6'0" 267lbs, 15% bodyfat (caliper tested)
- Experience:
13 years serious training (powerlifting/olympic weightlifting). Former WDFPF world champion, AAU Sr. National champ, USAPL Jr. National champ.
- Goals:
Maintain strength. Get down to 10-12% bodyfat over the course of a year. Feel better overall.
- Diet:
Weston A. Price foundation dietary guidelines. 200g protein a day, low to no sugar, heathly fats and as many veggies as possible.
- Previous PH/Steroid history:
None at all.

[JayFive]

I'm just gonna reply here since this is the best first post I've seen in the Anabolic forums. Bump to you sir. I'd love to answer you but I only troll this forum to learn.

[Sean]

I would say PH cycles are ok but much prefer the real deal. If you are going to take the health risks why not use the good stuff, so to speak.
Also, 30 is not that old. I am 37, and even though I am not at what you are throwing around, I really dont take that long to recover, no more than when I was 30. I would look at diet, rest, rotating between heavy and light cycles (loading/deloading) Periodization and all that before going to roids. Not that they are not good and serve a purpose, dont get me wrong, did a few cycles myself of PHs and roids. Just might be other factors you could work on.

[TheHorseman]

I'd have to see nutrition, rest and training volume before I'd think hormonal.

I'm all about gradual, but even maintaining strength, dropping 3-5% over a year isn't aggressive.

Great numbers.

[lee thompson]

Your 30 and you think your old? man i am nearly 40 and whup the arses of 20 yr olds,you must be doing something very wrong!!!

[hrpiii]

The answer to your question is "..no, PH will give some benefit, but more sides and health hazards". Real AAS will have more benefits and less sides. PH's do more liver and kidney damage in a short time than any thing else. Being an RN, you can quite easily understand this... Your HDL will be in the low teens, your LDL will easily shoot into the upper 200's to close to 300. Expect this on a six week cycle, and then take another 6-8 months for those numbers to return.

I would NOT recommend any PH cycle. You will not get the expected results you want, but will get all the sides.

[joemomma]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

The answer to your question is "..no, PH will give some benefit, but more sides and health hazards". Real AAS will have more benefits and less sides. PH's do more liver and kidney damage in a short time than any thing else. Being an RN, you can quite easily understand this... Your HDL will be in the low teens, your LDL will easily shoot into the upper 200's to close to 300. Expect this on a six week cycle, and then take another 6-8 months for those numbers to return.

I would NOT recommend any PH cycle. You will not get the expected results you want, but will get all the sides.

Truth here. My cholesterol (which is high anyways) shot to over 300 when I did a 4wk cycle of Havoc (epistane). Took several months for it to recover. Plus, it IS expensive. You have to run a boatload of support supps on PHs to keep from killing your liver and/or kidneys. There are a couple of good PHs still out there, however, you need to realize that they ARE steroids. I would not recommend running a PH.
Have you had your test levels checked? You sound like you might be experiencing low test - laziness, tired, extended recovery....all symptoms.
Based on the numbers you are putting up, you certainly seem to know your stuff. Looks like your protein is a bit low for your weight.

[mitchcumstein]

Couple of things i noticed and suggest.

1) get your test levels checked by a doc.

2) You cant lift heavy all the time. need to deload and take breaks too. When was the last time you took a whole week or 2 off without lifting?

3) Dont think youre getting nearly enough protein for your bodyweight/lbm. In my opinion 300g would be the minimum. This could certainly hinder your recovery ability.

4) dont think PH's are gonna do alot for someone at your current level besides jack up your cholesterol and liver values. Testosterone is certainly the way to go and may even get prescribed to you.

[vassille]

Originally Posted by twiceborn

Hey everyone, I'm here looking for some advice from some of the more experienced members here.

I am an older guy who had been "around the block" so to speak, and I am ready to make a change in my approach to training.

I'm lifetime "natural" (13 years training experience), and have never used anything more than food for a supplement. I wanted to give myself a chance to reap whatever natural gains I could from my body, and now those gains are just about dried up.

My recovery ability is drying up at this stage of the game. A single workout will kick my ass for 3-4 days afterwards, and I can't sleep worth a ****. Its really effecting my professional life (I am an RN and work 3rd shift) , and I find myself being very lazy in my personal responsibilities. Where I used to have energy for all the minor things, now I have none.

My main training weights from the last two weeks were:

- 510lb x1 raw floor press
- 630lb x3 raw back squat
- 740lb x1 raw deadlift

...so yeah, kinda heavy, and a royal ***** to recover from. These are the only three sessions I have had in two weeks because I need the days in between to recover. Add that to work and I am one dead-tired son of a *****.

My question is what can an older lifter take to get back some recovery ability? Do PH cycles give the same feeling of well-being that I have heard about from people using full on hormone replacement? Are they even worth it for this?

Are there any PH's still being sold which fit the bill?

As for full on steroids, I would like to stay with PH's while they are still semi-legal and available.

Right now my lifting can stay where it is, I don't care about strength improvement. I really just want to be able to maintain my current ability, lose 20lbs, and not feel like a dead dog every morning.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks to you all.


- Age:
I am 30 years old.
- Size:
6'0" 267lbs, 15% bodyfat (caliper tested)
- Experience:
13 years serious training (powerlifting/olympic weightlifting). Former WDFPF world champion, AAU Sr. National champ, USAPL Jr. National champ.
- Goals:
Maintain strength. Get down to 10-12% bodyfat over the course of a year. Feel better overall.
- Diet:
Weston A. Price foundation dietary guidelines. 200g protein a day, low to no sugar, heathly fats and as many veggies as possible.
- Previous PH/Steroid history:
None at all.

One thing I can suggest which I think a few ppl mentioned it if you are going to go heavy you need to eat more in order to recover. If you want to lose fat then add cardio but keep food intake high protein too. Also, im not sure if you lift heavy all the time but that's another variable that needs to be addressed. Perhaps lifting heavy too often just puts too much strain on your body"s ability to recover. I think your diet is something to focus on though

As for PHs, at this stage in the game it is not really going to do all that much for you but maybe make you gain a few lbs of muscle but the side effects are def not worth those few lbs of muscle and because of your size you may need to up the dosdage to get any decent results. Look into injectables you will be much more pleased with the results
BTW, nice lifts

[waynaferd]

I'll probably get laughed out of here, but here's my .02....

Go for it while you can!!!

Superdrol, tren, and Phera clones are all on the new ban list, so the first troubles you'll have is finding a place not scared to still sell the stuff.

Anyway, I'm 6'3, 252, and although your lifts are quite a bit higher than mine, I got some good size and strength gains from epistane (same as Havoc).

After testing the waters with a mild PH, I'm halfway thru a m-drol (superdrol clone) to phera-plex bridge, and woo-hoo-hoo!!!

Sure, you got bad cholesterol, liver enzymes, and blood pressure to worry about, but some good ole fish oil, milk thistle, and any of the "cycle supports" readily available to help in all these areas. I'm all for oral AAS cycles, so long as you got solid support supps and PCT set up.

I'm sure at your size and strength you'd gain more.

check out the anabolic section at anabolicminds.com FMI on any PH and "real" injectable.

And a side note, no AAS of any type will help your CNS recover, so you can still overtrain yourself.