Epistane or Havoc?

[Merk0135]

I'd much rather have my first cycle be Test-E and with someone that's done it before but that isn't going to happen. I'm leaning towards Havoc 40/30/30/10 and then Nolvadex 40/30/20/10 depending on how I shut down. I'm wondering what you guys think. The dark side is calling my name.

[Merk0135]

Thanks, douches. Anyway, I decided on epistane and will go 50 mg for 6 weeks then nolva. I'll give a review for you biches.

[lostboyrufio]

You should just do creatine. I got HUGE and RIPPED off of it. Just watch it, might give you roid rage and/or AIDS

[Merk0135]

Originally Posted by lostboyrufio

you should just do creatine. I got huge and ripped off of it. Just watch it, might give you roid rage and/or aids

omgawdz i do creatine too, ima getin fvkcin huge off this stakz!!!!

[lostboyrufio]

i actually laughed out loud

[vassille]

Start with that and see how you do,

[tribal]

50mg is a hefty dose. I hope you're well experienced and a big mo-fo already.

[waynaferd]

Originally Posted by Merk0135

I'm leaning towards Havoc 40/30/30/10.

I missed this part earlier when I PM'd ya, but ramp UP, not down...

10 the first day, 20 the rest of the 1st week, 30 2nd week, 40 last 2 weeks.

You'll also want a test booster and cortisol control in your PCT, not just an AI. And some liver support is also good. In fact look for Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support on google or something. But ya, def. want more in your PCT than Nolva. And since Havoc/EPI is "dry", you'll want something for your joints (EFA's).

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by tribal

50mg is a hefty dose. I hope you're well experienced and a big mo-fo already.

Meh, my wife took 30mg a day when she tried it. Mg for Mg id say its a little weaker than Var.

[Merk0135]

Originally Posted by waynaferd

I missed this part earlier when I PM'd ya, but ramp UP, not down...

10 the first day, 20 the rest of the 1st week, 30 2nd week, 40 last 2 weeks.

You'll also want a test booster and cortisol control in your PCT, not just an AI. And some liver support is also good. In fact look for Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support on google or something. But ya, def. want more in your PCT than Nolva. And since Havoc/EPI is "dry", you'll want something for your joints (EFA's).

You really think all that is necessary? From every where else I've read EPI doesn't require anything other than nolva.

[waynaferd]

According to rumors.......

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Supplements To Utilize During A Havoc PCT:




-CreatineMonohydrate, Ethyl Ester, Gluconate) Creatine is an important supplement to utilize during the pct period for many reasons. Creatine acts by increasing ATP production within the body enabling for more noteable strength and endurance during workouts.

Some of the most substantial benefits of creatine supplementation include:

-Creatine helps in promoting of lean-muscle mass.
-Creatine helps in reducing muscle wasting in post-surgical patients
-It increases muscle cell volume by increasing water.
-Creatine increases work capacity in muscle.
-It increases muscle stores of creatine for short term energy.
-It increases glycogen re-synthesis.

-Anti-Cortisol: These supplements assist you in helping to maintain your gains during the pct period. Cortisol suppression helps maintain size gains by limiting the release of the potent adrenal hormone cortisol. If this is left unadressed during your PCT, this can lead to a dreaded muscular destructive "catabolic state." This state is undesireable to the user as muscle is broken down and used for energy. This means some of the hard earned gains you've recently aquired are going to waste and being used as fuel for the body's daily processes. Using an anti-cortisol supplement helps to limit the amount of cortisol released overall. This assists in maintaining a more anabolic state further preserving your aquired gains.

-SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)Tamoxifen, Raloxifene, Clomiphene, Toremifene) A serm assists in blocking the effects of elevated estrogen(By binding with estrogen receptor sites preventing them from producing undesired estrogen related effects) while the body balances out its own endogenous hormones and effectively upregulates/restores its HPTA(Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis.)

-Natural Testosterone Booster: During your pct, your natural endogenous testosterone levels are suppressed(some users may be more-so than others.) These supplements help to kickstart your natural testosterone production and ultimately assist in restoring your HPTA(Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis.) This can be done by either stimulating the testes to produce more testosterone overall, or by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme(I.E, Aromatase Inhibitors) preventing estrogen conversion. This process tricks the body into producing more testosterone(which the body thinks will be used to convert into estrogen)to compensate for the unequal balance in estrogen/testosterone ratio.

-Branched Chain Amino AcidsLeucine, Isoleucine, Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis as well as assisting in maintaining aquired muscle mass during the pct period. I recommend drinking BCAA's during your workout and into the postwork period. There are many effective BCAA supplements on the market. Choose the one that you like best.

-Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support: (NAC: N-Acetyl Cysteine), Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract, Hawthorne Berry, Saw Palmetto, Red Yeast Rice, COQ10) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas.



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AND!!!!!...you have another PM

And here's the whole Havoc write-up (same as Epistane)......

Havoc Write-up

[mitchcumstein]

lol, nolva is plenty

[waynaferd]

Yeah, nolva will help prevent gyno on the rebound.

But nolva won't get your natural levels back to normal faster and help keep your gains.

It's your body, do as you see fit.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by waynaferd

Yeah, nolva will help prevent gyno on the rebound.

But nolva won't get your natural levels back to normal faster and help keep your gains.

It's your body, do as you see fit.

Yes it will. Thats what nolva or clomid does. It stimulates LH production which in turn stimulates your body to start producing more test. You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Leave the advice giving to people who do.

[Merk0135]

For the record I'm just taking EPI, not Havoc. I decided on EPI because from what I read it doesn't give you the sides Havoc does and you don't shut down nearly as bad. I'll check out what you pmed me though, waynaferd.

[mitchcumstein]

lol, Epi and Havoc are the same exact compound. Only difference is brand name.

[tribal]

Actually, Havoc is SLIGHTLY different (ONE bond different), but basically have the exact same effect (same outcome, same sides, same shutdown, etc).

[waynaferd]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

Yes it will. Thats what nolva or clomid does. It stimulates LH production which in turn stimulates your body to start producing more test. You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Leave the advice giving to people who do.

Just take your nolvadex.

Good luck to ya.


And I quote.....

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"If I bust my ass and go through the trouble of running a cycle to get those precious pounds then I go 10X more all out with my post cycle therapy to maintain those gains... and possibly improve on them! Im the biggest advocate of overdoing it on post cycle therapy hitting every possible angle I can with as many possible supps as I can that arent redundant to make sure I dont skip a beat after a cycle and wont do it any other way"

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[Merk0135]

Originally Posted by tribal

Actually, Havoc is SLIGHTLY different (ONE bond different), but basically have the exact same effect (same outcome, same sides, same shutdown, etc).

From reading other forums people complained a lot more about Havocs sides than they did EPI. Not exactly scientific but the difference was very noticeable. So far I haven't noticed anything different except maybe a little ball shrinkage.

[mitchcumstein]

Originally Posted by waynaferd

Just take your nolvadex.

Good luck to ya.


And I quote.....

-------------------

"If I bust my ass and go through the trouble of running a cycle to get those precious pounds then I go 10X more all out with my post cycle therapy to maintain those gains... and possibly improve on them! Im the biggest advocate of overdoing it on post cycle therapy hitting every possible angle I can with as many possible supps as I can that arent redundant to make sure I dont skip a beat after a cycle and wont do it any other way"

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Bud, Nolvadex or Clomid is your standard pct after a steroid cycle. Epistane of Havoc is no exception. Its tried and its proven. No need to reinvent the wheel. The fact that you think that the only thing nolva does is prevent estrogen rebound shows your complete lack of knowledge when it comes to AAS.