the dark side is calling me!!(igf-1, PMGF)

[bencozzy]

so how does this sound, it looks good to me but want some opinions.

wks 0-1 MGF 250mcg m-w-f
wks 1-5 MGF 250mcg m
IGF-1 50mcg w-th-f-sat

and thoughts??

Ben

[bencozzy]

now what if i was to run tren with this? would that increase the hypo? and would i have to run test with the tren?

thanks
ben

[Poobah]

I'm assumin Pmgf is pegulated MGF? correct?

I'm more up to speed on the standard fast acting stuff.. More for IM injection preworkout, and igf can be followed up after workout..

The pegulated I believe you need to inject it 24 hours before your workout, igf after workout like normal... the timing is tricky though, cause one compound largely kills the effectiveness of the other.. so you only want one active at any given time...

and then you have to consider, does that time include the time it takes for cells to react to the receptor activation of either igf or mgf? (ie. once igf activates a receptor a chemical reaction begins to take place that can take the better part of a day to complete even after the igf that triggered the reaction is long gone)...

Call me crazy, but to me when utilizing a dual pre and post workout combo like this, it occurs to me that thier really might not be alot to gain from using the long variety compounds.. Look at it this way.

Elongated half lifes of both igf and MGF make the product a blood stream capable agent, that means it can now be taken subq and regardless of dosage and IM or SUBQ administration, a good bit of it will find it's way to the blood stream and the effect of the compounds will be systematic. Whats bad about this is in the case of either product, this will greatly effect your intestinal track which is very high in responsive receptors, versus the few area's of muscle that you are targeting(will or just worked out)..

In either case, I would not recommend subq injections of igf or mgf wether it's long or short.. And I feel that these products are best used to see very real spot injections that have great effect. and to that end, short estered varieties and even long estered varieties will see the best benefit.

for 1 reason, you can use less and get great results where you need them, not in you intestinal track. Ie.. 100mcg to your biceps is likely to do more for your bicep then 250mcg will do to your entire body subq.

for 2 the fast acting stuff is usually cheaper.

for 3 once receptors have been activated they are activated you can't reactivate them till they have worked through the chemical response that was initiated by first contact... this is what alot of people don't realize.

for 4 Short acting agents, will not survive in the blood stream long enough to activate receptor sites in your intestinal track, so results are the results you want, not the ones you dread.

SO for me...

I'd use regular mgf IM, pre workout (about 1-2 hours before).. then workout like a crazy mofo, and follow that up with IGF (lr3 is fine, and probably most readily available).

The only thing I'm not comfortable with at this point.. is how much time is needed between taking mgf and igf to be fully effective.. I'm just not really sure on that.

I would be concerned with eating correctly and avoiding hypo that way.. tren shouldn't be a factor.. Slow absorb carbs in the form of whole grains are great pre and post workout... with some added fast carbs for post workout of course. And if insulin is in the picture its even more important, long igf doesn't really result in a huge drop in blood sugar any where near as bad as insulin.

[bencozzy]

ok now that makes since, so basicly oratropin then would be bad?(long acting oral igf-1, just a side note)

ok so hMGF im 1-2hrs before workout, dosing for this?
lr3 igf-1 ?im? immmidiately after workout, 40-50 mcg

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by bencozzy

ok now that makes since, so basicly oratropin then would be bad?(long acting oral igf-1, just a side note)

ok so hMGF im 1-2hrs before workout, dosing for this?
lr3 igf-1 ?im? immmidiately after workout, 40-50 mcg

Um first off, I just made alot of corrections of grammer and what not, and added some more info in my original post.

Secondly, yes.. I think oratropin, and long acting igf are great products from a Pharmacutical stand point... looking for a new compound to help treat a wide array of potential patients for all manners of illness.. or even aid in quick healing or whatever..

But to a bodybuilder, I think the products in some ways are more hype then effect.. after all.. bodybuilders are building thier bodies.. but not randomly.. they shouldn;t be trying to grow thier guts? I think instead it is much wiser to build up weak area's with planned injections with local effect. Plus it is much more a controllable venture.

Subq is like playing pin the tail on the donkey. (in the dark with darts)

Subq for insulin the other hand is fine, because you control the effect of the administration by the foods you eat around it's injection.

[bencozzy]

ok so how does this look

igf-1 50mcg/IM post
mgf 100mcg/ IM pre

and tren might be out of the question since im not looking to go bald, unless its easier on the hair line then SD or MDHT??

thanks
ben

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by bencozzy

ok so how does this look

igf-1 50mcg/IM post
mgf 100mcg/ IM pre

and tren might be out of the question since im not looking to go bald, unless its easier on the hair line then SD or MDHT??

thanks
ben

Honestly That is the exact dosages I recommended to an honest to goodness Professional national level competitor from my neck of woods.. (275 5% on his worst days.. lol)...

It's his first time takin mfg, so I haven't heard yet how it's been treating him.. but his first time on IGF, he absolutely was inspired and put on 20 pounds in 4 weeks leading up to a show (peaked about 280 3%, and actually leaned out.. (I think simply cause he's a long time true professional that never had touched something like igf... I'm guessing his body was ready for it and he knew how to eat to take advantage of it). (I should also mention he was on hgh, insulin, tren, test and other goodies).

[vassille]

What else is considered other goodies LOL
I bet you a thick on his back could grow just by sucking in the blood

[mywetnightmares]

I'd stay away from regular MGF, IBE has acknowledged that they made a mistake by releasing the non-PEG form because it's halflife is so short (think 15 minutes.) I think they have even admitted that non-PEG won't do much. I've seen recommendations on PEG somewhere at around 400-500mcg per week split into 2-3 doses. IGF I've heard is best to hit PWO 40-50 mcg two-3 days per week on non-consecutive days.

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by mywetnightmares

I'd stay away from regular MGF, IBE has acknowledged that they made a mistake by releasing the non-PEG form because it's halflife is so short (think 15 minutes.) I think they have even admitted that non-PEG won't do much. I've seen recommendations on PEG somewhere at around 400-500mcg per week split into 2-3 doses. IGF I've heard is best to hit PWO 40-50 mcg two-3 days per week on non-consecutive days.

That's all true if were talking subq or orally... you need a higher dose cause your triggering receptor sites through your entire body... IM you need much less to trigger muscles local to the injection.

But 15 minutes is plenty of time to trigger local receptors, and you definately wouldn't need 400-500mcg..

Remember IBE can be as respected as anyone, but they are still trying to mass market a product for profit.

The BB'er, I mentioned previously... at 100mcg was becoming noxious and going hypo from that dose... The guy hates carbs though, and doesn't really eat any except for Post workout... regardless though, that alone tells you the MGF is having a real effect at 100mcg.

[mywetnightmares]

MGF shouldn't have an insulin response.

hMGF's downfall and the introduction of PEGylated MGF

I will note that LakemountD currently works for IBE, however when he first started writing about MGF/IGF he did not and was not hired until IBE realized that they should probly listen to him cuz he knows his sh!t. IBE also was the first company to come out with both PEG MGF and hMGF. The reason they don't sell hMGF anymore are outlined in the post.

I do agree though about IGF, it should be shot bilateral, IM, PWO.

[bencozzy]

ive already read all that stuff, lakemountd does know his growth factors.

im going to wait abit and see some more real world results/logs and do a bit more research myself before i commit to a full blown cycle.

[Poobah]

Originally Posted by mywetnightmares

MGF shouldn't have an insulin response.

Maybe so, but like I said the guy is a complete no-carb guy with a 5% average year round bf (he's not a smart bodybuilder). And it's happening to him.. so perhaps there is a minimal response that is exagerated by his current eating habits and his inherently low bodyfat.

Either way, I'm not saying I'm right... but you gota ask yourself a question sometimes and come up with a logical explanation... Oral and subq injections are not the way to go with chemicals that have systemmatic response where a systematic response is not always the best effect... In my opinion.

And in my opinion your far better off taking smaller does IM to see results where they are wanted and not systematically.

Granted this is all in My opinion.. And I am not Lakemount... but just because someone is highered by a supp company as a rep or whatever doesn't mean that person is gospel either.. It simply means that person is respected and listened to, and will help them move more product. He certainly could be right too, but seems to me alot of this dosing seems to go in line with what people can afford and not necessarily the effect of the dose. The cheaper IGF becomes, the higher the recommended doses go and oddly enough the cheap price of mgf oddly is equal in price to igf doses.. ie. 150 bucks = 20 days of igf, and 150 bucks = 20 days of MGF. It all seems to neat and Tiddy.. I perfer to think for myself. ( although I wasn't very good in school. )

[mywetnightmares]

Actually recommended doses for IGF have been decreasing. LMD recommends 40 mcg e3d IM PWO. I prefer this as well. At that dose one mg of IGF will last for over 2 months, and if you know where to look for IGF it will cost you around $60-80 per mg. Right now I think peg MGF is going for $80 per 2mg, that's a little more than a month's worth. I think opinions are pretty split on MGF sub-q or IM. I'd recommend IM simply because I find it less painful and the localized effect before it goes systemic would be a benefit. With the increased halflife from the pegylation however it will eventually go systemic.