THE Chart

[RRAdam]

Ok, most of you know those steroid "charts" floating on the
internet are worthless. They are way off and could lead to
someone getting hurt. So I have decided to make a more
respectable one. Though, Everyone reacts differently to each
compound - I have taken these compounds and given them a 1-10
score based on my personal experience and from primary and
secondary research. This by no means is gospel so you dont have
to say "NO WAI DBOL IS TEH GRATEST EVAR!!!1ONE" if you disagree,
but this is far better than most of those "charts" out there. For the side effects score - the higher the score, the more prominent the sides. This is pretty much a rough draft, I may have goofed or fat fingered something (I almost forgot tren before I posted)

[drugsarebad...hummmkayy]

nice post ive seen some of these charts around...

ha ha ha one of them actually said that dbol is the best steroid to use and youll keep all the gains after finishing your cycle......

[mitchcumstein]

I like it. I agree with pretty much all of it except the effect of provirion on HTPA being 2. I honestly wouldve put it at 0.

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by mitchcumstein

I like it. I agree with pretty much all of it except the effect of provirion on HTPA being 2. I honestly wouldve put it at 0.

I would have had it at 1. It does effect it, very little. But I like the chart, looks good.

[mitchcumstein]

This is what im basing my opinion on. Im not trying to nit pick either cause the charts as close as any ive seen IMO.







This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute Clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.



Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.

[RRAdam]

Thing is - those studies were done on men with idiopatic/primary testicular failure/hypogonadism. This is not cosistent with someone who is coming off of a cycle. While you are on cycle, you suffer from secondary hypogonadism. So these studies, while informative, do not necessarily prove anything for someone using AAS. I also forgot a side column - effects on lipid profile - will add later.

[ryanbodybuilder]

you have personally used all of that stuff? you only used to be on like 1 cycle a year....i havent even heard of some of that stuff.....cool chart though

[Poobah]

I think it's good...

Can we get a liver toxicity column... ? It would help offset the off the cuff appeal of some the really nasty products like methyl-tren. Powerful yet deadly... and why is it that the the more powerful something is the more deadly it must become? Is it similar to if it taste good it's bad for you?


I'd give tbol a few more points for water retention. (if eq and anavar are a 2, tbol would be 4)

[RRAdam]

Originally Posted by ryanbodybuilder

you have personally used all of that stuff? you only used to be on like 1 cycle a year....i havent even heard of some of that stuff.....cool chart though

No, I havent done all of those, but you can gauge pretty well from other users how they substance works.

As for the Tbol, I was basing that one mostly on experience - it didnt bloat me much at all (but it did some). I guess it could be a little higher.

And thats 2 columns I need to add now.

[RRAdam]

And while I'm at it, I will explain the anadrol. Since no one really knows whether the gyno/bloating sides from drol are due to progestin or estrogenic activity or a combo of both, I went ahead and put an "interchangable" 8 score in the columns. So whether its estrogen, progesterone or a combo of both, the sides amount to ~ 8.

[Gajbird]

ttt ttttttttttttttttt