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03-20-2007, 12:30 PM
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please share ur opinions (primo and winni)
well . although i am not a big fan of roids , but recently i was extensively searching for something to help me add some mass in 12 weeks ,i tried every supp u can think of , not much have been achieved , my diet and training are not that perfect due to a vey busy schedule however after 1 week i will have more time , so here s the situation , in 12 weeks i have to loose 10lbs of fat and gain at min 5lb lean ....i was thinking and thinking about a diet and training routine but couldnt find good ones that s why i will post those related questions in their appropriate sections ....however i was searchin about aas and 2 coumpounds attracted my attention . primobolan and winstrol and i thought that if i stacked em together , along with a good diet and routine i might add few precious lean mass and since they are not that supperssive to hpta the gains are easy to maintain plus since they will be little i think my body can keep them easily , my goal is to add 5lbs lean ....is this achievable with primo and winni ? ....i am with the way of thinking that tells that u have to reach ur genetic potential be4 aas , but the thing here is that those 2 coumpounds are very mild with very few side effects common to aas , that s why i woundered why they ve placed them in the category of aas ......is my reasoning logical , what s ur advice guys ? ...note that i will use ephedra to help sheddin the fats .......what kind of diet should i use in conjunction with this stack .....i even doubt if i can call it cycle ,.......sincerly /.........
note that i ve been training for 2 years (on and off) am 190lb , 23%bf , 27bmi , 2000calorie bmr , i can bench 200lbs 6X ...squats ..i dnt do .much ..........what do u all think ?????? Last edited by occ; 03-20-2007 at 12:33 PM. 
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03-20-2007, 12:41 PM
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Lose the weight first and put some more time in the gym. I personally wouldnt run a cycle if i was starting at anything over 15%Bf. Also, if you cant bench 225 at least 8 times then you have no business using anabolics IMO. Give your tendons and ligaments a chance to strengthen up before turning to AAS otherwise you just risk injury.
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5-10 208lbs 10%bf Bench-365 Deadlift-525 Squat-425 Total=1315
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03-21-2007, 01:02 AM
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* please , let s try to discuss this in specifique , what you say holds true for test or tren or even deca , but the point i am discussing is that : can primo or winni be compared to those aas , i mean it s not fair to do so ,they will not cause a surge in power or aggretion as test do , what i mean is that if u can bench 200lbs for ex u wont bench 230lbs the next day using primo just as test do.....and based on their properties u dont have to do a pct , they will not cause shut down of the hpta , the only advice i was given is to keep clomid (just n case) and take some form of liver protectant (for winni tabs , also just n case ) ..... *i am open for all advices guys i just wanna be convinced based on logical way of thinking , i ve already said that i m not a big fan of aas .............peace
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03-21-2007, 04:36 AM
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The question: Can primo and winni add 5 lbs of muscles.
Answer, for you, no. For me, yes. 1.You don't have enough training, lifting experience to get the most out of AAS. 2. Your diet is not right, if it was, you would be around 12% bf. 3. You will get shut down and need PCT 4. 12 wks of an oral is a no-no, and newbie researching would have found this out. 5. Winni will dry out your joints, so pushing heavy weights will increase the chance of you getting injured. 6. Without Test as a base, you are wasting your time. As a first cycle with no test, you are wasting everyone elses time here. 7. since you are not a fan of AAS, then why even start asking questions. The answer you need to get is: 1. You are not ready for any type of AAS. Don't do it. You are not educated enough on what AAS does to your body. You are over weight. You don't have enough training or gym experience.
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"Go hard or Go Home"
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03-21-2007, 05:25 AM
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can u elaborate on the 1st , 3rd and 6th point ......i wanna understand what s the basis of that ....why will it shut down forme and not for you....why test should be used as a base for 5lbs only ...and i thought that lifting experience is important to maintain not to get the most out of your cycle ....if anyone think my questions silly ..well dont reply ...if anyone is eager to teach a newbie ..thanks so much in advance
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03-21-2007, 07:16 AM
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1. I've been lifting 13 years straight. Went from 175 lbs to 200 lbs naturally. Your diet is 80% of bodybuilding (not lifting, not supplements, definitely not AAS). If you don't have that in check, I don't give a rats butt oh how much you can lift. Didn't touch AAS till I was 34.
2. Primo and winny will shut you down. They will effect your hpta. Especially primo at the doses needed to make any gains. We are talking 800mg a wk, anything less and it's a waste. This is if your diet is in check. 3. Test is the base of all cycles because any AAS will shut down your natural production of Test. Without your natural production, it will be even harder to build muscle, maintain your libido, maintain your energy in the gym. Any reason you didn't want me to elaborate on #2? From your research, how is primo and winny going to help someone over 20% bf? Primo and winny will shut anyone down. But I know not to run them without test. I also know I wouldn't run them together because there are much better options available. Based on the information you are inquiring about, you have done very little research. I'm not going to spoon feed you the answers, when they are already here.
__________________
"Go hard or Go Home"
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03-21-2007, 07:28 AM
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12 weeks of any AAS will shut you down to some extent. period. Primo and winny are mild compared to say Tren or Deca but they will still suppress your HTPA and require a good pct.
__________________
5-10 208lbs 10%bf Bench-365 Deadlift-525 Squat-425 Total=1315
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03-21-2007, 11:28 AM
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in this life so far ....i was soo happy and thought that finally i ve found somethin to get me out of this plateau , again it turned out that i was wrong .....i am passing a severe depression due to the f***in events am passin in , let me conc on bb : 2 long years of bb , 2 years of passion , going to gym under the rain skipping classes , spendin all my money on supp and the result ....whomever look at me says : ohh u dont seem to do bb ....i hope none of experience this feeling ever .......my diet was so good most of the times yet little gains were made ....and guess what fun hasnt ended yet : i ve hurted my left wrist and right elbow so much since summer and they didnt recover yet so i see the weight but i cant lift it cuz it hurts ........the gym is my way to run out of my prob , everyday stress and all those sh**ts ...but even the gym failed me .....i did a test check and my test levels came to be in the LOW normal range ..that s why i need more time than any one of u to gain the same mass ......for god sake just tell me what can i do ? cant live like that anymore ...i sometimes think : scew everythin i ll run a heavy cycle and when i loose my gains i ll run it again and again and when my body is fckd up i ll jst end my life ...but i re-think and say no let s try again , one more time , let s search for a supp , let s change the diet ...routine ...but again to fail and to complete the same circle /////////// PEACE...and thanks so much for the info bro
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03-21-2007, 11:37 AM
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Just don't go kill yourself..
If you want some real help.. I'd be happy to look at all your physcial stats, your actual daily diet, complete breakdown of protein, carbs and fats.. and A close look at your specific lifting routine.. As much as you think you know, you may be surprised at what you don't actually know.. or what you thought you knew turned out to be utter rubbish. Don't give up.. just keeping asking for help and keep listening to good advice. peace.
__________________
Pause Squats - 345 x 5, June 6 2006 Deadlift - 505 x 4, June 1 2006 BB Bench - 340 x 1, March 15th 2006
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03-22-2007, 07:19 AM
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03-22-2007, 08:12 AM
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But it's simple.. tell your personal stats... weight, hieght, BF... Tell me how many calories a day you eat, how many grams of fat / protein / carbs.. How many meals do you eat, and what do you eat in those meals? When do you get up, when do you work out and when do you to bed? Show me your entire workout split... what do you do on what days of the week? How many reps, how many sets? etc... If you make the effort, in honestly telling me all that, I'll make an effort to crunch some numbers and make some observations that may help you. peace bro.
__________________
Pause Squats - 345 x 5, June 6 2006 Deadlift - 505 x 4, June 1 2006 BB Bench - 340 x 1, March 15th 2006
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03-24-2007, 12:55 AM
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entire routine
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ok man ( folowed it for 2 month and seen minor results ) height : 183cm weight: 186lbs bf% = 22 i eat ~2000calories/day , ~200g proteins , ~200g carbs , ~~50g fat i eat 6 meal : meal 1 : 100g cheese +50g milk +25g whey+100g brown bread meal 2 : tuna(180g) + juice (300ml) meal 3 : chicken breast (150g) + 100g rice meal 4 : post workout shake (whey + juice) meal 5 : tuna (180g) + 50g rice meal 6 : egg white 6+ 1 yolk + bread i wake up @ 7:30am go to univ till 2:00pm .....workout at 3:00pm and go to bed at 1:00am i train 4 days a week , each session ~70min mon : chest + biceps tuseday : back + triceps +abs wed: off thurs: shoulders + traps + forarms friday : chest again + legs +abs sat and sun : off i do 4 sets reps in the range : 10-12 ...i lift moderate weight but do the full range of action , slowly ...till i reach failure by the 10th rep or so i hope i ve given u all info u need ...and man ...if i made some progress , u must be proud of yourself bec no coach yet had succeeded with me .....peace bro
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03-24-2007, 11:45 AM
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I'll think about this more on the monday..
2000 calories doesn't seem like much to me though.. If you haven't calculated your bmr, I'll do so later, and see how close you are in that respect. how much cardio are you doing? Cardio will do wonders to help raise you metabolism and burn off that extra fat, that you are managing to hold on to at 22% bf. Off the top of my head, I'd like to see you eat more, and do more cardio.. I'd like to hear more about your set and rep schemes... Have you been making any gains in strengths or reps over the last few months?
__________________
Pause Squats - 345 x 5, June 6 2006 Deadlift - 505 x 4, June 1 2006 BB Bench - 340 x 1, March 15th 2006
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03-25-2007, 03:12 AM
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