My (theoretical) next cycle..

[slam damnit]

OK, so as discussed in a previous thread, I’m spending the next number of weeks going back to square one on diet. I have some specific goals and am continuing to work out a specific plan to get me there.

Assuming I’m happy with my results, 12 weeks from now I’ll be starting a decent cycle, unlike the crap that’s gone before. I’m planning for that now, to check and double-check the plan, and to get all supplies in-hand, which will take a little time.

Please allow me to lay out my plan here, so that I can invite some feedback to help me on the path to righteousness and to fine-tune the deal.


The plan.

Weeks 1-10 Test E as Testoviron depot 250mg/ml, 500mg/week

Weeks 1-9 EQ as Boldabol 200mg/ml, 300mg/week [I’ve read that mixing test w/ a milder steroid makes for a “less risky” stack, plus I’m interested in EQ’s properties. I’d love to hear thoughts.]

Weeks 1-10 30mg Tamoxifen ED [Opinions seem to vary on this. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts. And how does this dovetail with my PCT, below? I seem to have a gap.]

Weeks 1-11 HCG as Pregnyl 5000 i.u./ml, 250mg 2x/week [per Tribal’s article, as opposed to weeks 10-12, 4 doses at 3000, 3000, 1500 and 1500 respectively; I’d like to hear discussion of this]

I will use a 20g needle to draw. I will administer with a 1” 23g needle. I believe I can use the 23g for the HCG as well, correct?

3.5ml is a big-ish shot. Should I break this up into 2 doses per week? This would have me using 2ml syringes.

PCT to start 14 (or 21?) days after last injection, Tamoxifen 60/30/20. Additionally supplementing w/ ZMA, ECA. [Is three weeks sufficient, or should I go 60/40/30/20?]

I’ll do a 4-day split routine throughout, HIIT 5 days. I want to minimize fat gain as much as possible through proper diet and plan to use the HIIT to just help that. I’ll be at approx. 4000 cals/day, but will be watching that and fine-tuning as necessary. I will eat 6 clean meals per day, with one day off per week to eat whatever so I don’t go nuts.

Joints really got to bothering me last time I shot to lift heavier each week. I plan to get the weight up there some but not to push too much too fast. Thoughts on that? I certainly don’t want to waste my time, but I think I lose more ground with the sore joints in the long run.

Thanks for reading.

Peace.

[slam damnit]

I guess it must be perfect.. I'll proceed!

[ryanbodybuilder]

wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much nolva dude.....its very liver toxic...run 10mg EOD if you absolutely need it..but you wont get any gyno at all on those doses....at least you shouldnt at all

[slam damnit]

Thanks..

I don't know that I need it at all, I'm just looking at what others have done. Opinions seem to vary on the use of Nolva and HCG concurrent with the TEST. New to this, so I want to benefit from the experience of others.

[Patrick_Bateman]

Originally Posted by slam damnit

Thanks..

I don't know that I need it at all, I'm just looking at what others have done. Opinions seem to vary on the use of Nolva and HCG concurrent with the TEST. New to this, so I want to benefit from the experience of others.

10mg Nolva only if needed, at the test dose you are doing I doubt if you need nolva on cycle at all. I use arimidex on cycle, seems to work better than Nolvadex.

[slam damnit]

Thanks.. I'll look at Arimidex. Sounds like I should, however, skip Nolva or Arimidex unless/until something presents itself requiring me to start.. Correct?

Both of you guys made reference to the test dose.. Do you think that's a good dose for a first real cycle? Too low? I pussied around with my first weak-ass oral-only cycle like a typical n00b. I don't want to be stupid again.

[Patrick_Bateman]

Originally Posted by slam damnit

Thanks.. I'll look at Arimidex. Sounds like I should, however, skip Nolva or Arimidex unless/until something presents itself requiring me to start.. Correct?

Both of you guys made reference to the test dose.. Do you think that's a good dose for a first real cycle? Too low? I pussied around with my first weak-ass oral-only cycle like a typical n00b. I don't want to be stupid again.

I only use 400mg or 500mg of Test a week and it is more than enough to give me good gains....I do also use EQ at 600mg or Deca at 400mg with it .

[slam damnit]

Do the test and EQ need to be refrigerated? I'll be storing them for several weeks until I start.

Will the HCG successfully keep the nads normal-sized on cycle? That's the point, right?

How about cycle duration - 10 weeks vs. 11 or 12?

[Patrick_Bateman]

Originally Posted by slam damnit

Do the test and EQ need to be refrigerated? I'll be storing them for several weeks until I start.

Will the HCG successfully keep the nads normal-sized on cycle? That's the point, right?

How about cycle duration - 10 weeks vs. 11 or 12?

no, keep it at room temp

[vassille]

With Eq and Deca is probably better to do a 10-12 week cycle.
A short cycle is a 8-9weeks but EQ works better in a long cycle.
What's interesting is that I will do a similar cycle of 400 test cyp/500 EQ
for 12 weeks. Initially I was going to do a 8 weeker but I changed my mind now.
About HCG the jury is still out. Some people do shots throughout the cycle, which I think is not too good, and my preference is to use it at the end 3000/3000/1500/1500(every 6 days) on a cycle of 400 test cyp/500 EQ. I don't know man make your own decission.
Some people get good results doing 1000/1000/500/500 every 5 days.
The more supressive the cycle the more HCG you have to use, however I think 5000 is the max for one shot (ex. 5000, 3000, 3000, 1500) on a cycle of 750-1000/week test blend (sustenon type blend) which you do not need.
I've seen people do 250 2 times a week. I do not thing is one way of doing it.
In any case, do not ever go pass 5000 per shot every 6 days!
This drug is supposed to jump start your testies so be careful of prolonged use it can have an adverse reaction. 3 weeks is the most I recommend to use then take 6 weeks off.

[vassille]

Originally Posted by slam damnit

OK, so as discussed in a previous thread, I’m spending the next number of weeks going back to square one on diet. I have some specific goals and am continuing to work out a specific plan to get me there.

Assuming I’m happy with my results, 12 weeks from now I’ll be starting a decent cycle, unlike the crap that’s gone before. I’m planning for that now, to check and double-check the plan, and to get all supplies in-hand, which will take a little time.

Please allow me to lay out my plan here, so that I can invite some feedback to help me on the path to righteousness and to fine-tune the deal.


The plan.

Weeks 1-10 Test E as Testoviron depot 250mg/ml, 500mg/week

Weeks 1-9 EQ as Boldabol 200mg/ml, 300mg/week [I’ve read that mixing test w/ a milder steroid makes for a “less risky” stack, plus I’m interested in EQ’s properties. I’d love to hear thoughts.]

Weeks 1-10 30mg Tamoxifen ED [Opinions seem to vary on this. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts. And how does this dovetail with my PCT, below? I seem to have a gap.]

Weeks 1-11 HCG as Pregnyl 5000 i.u./ml, 250mg 2x/week [per Tribal’s article, as opposed to weeks 10-12, 4 doses at 3000, 3000, 1500 and 1500 respectively; I’d like to hear discussion of this]

I will use a 20g needle to draw. I will administer with a 1” 23g needle. I believe I can use the 23g for the HCG as well, correct?

3.5ml is a big-ish shot. Should I break this up into 2 doses per week? This would have me using 2ml syringes.

PCT to start 14 (or 21?) days after last injection, Tamoxifen 60/30/20. Additionally supplementing w/ ZMA, ECA. [Is three weeks sufficient, or should I go 60/40/30/20?]

I’ll do a 4-day split routine throughout, HIIT 5 days. I want to minimize fat gain as much as possible through proper diet and plan to use the HIIT to just help that. I’ll be at approx. 4000 cals/day, but will be watching that and fine-tuning as necessary. I will eat 6 clean meals per day, with one day off per week to eat whatever so I don’t go nuts.

Joints really got to bothering me last time I shot to lift heavier each week. I plan to get the weight up there some but not to push too much too fast. Thoughts on that? I certainly don’t want to waste my time, but I think I lose more ground with the sore joints in the long run.

Thanks for reading.

Peace.

Injections Split it twice a week. Mon and FRi
Long esters stay in your system up to 21 days so 3 weeks then PCT.
Nolvadex, PCT 40/30/20/10 if problems come up use 10mg/day through the cycle or use arimidex .5/day or (my favorite but pricey aromasin-is better on you lipids).
HCG as I mentioned try what makes you comfortable.

[slam damnit]

Good info, guys. Thank you.

I note that both of you do a smaller dose of test and a larger dose of eq than I'd laid out.

So I'm fine with taking 10 weeks to 12, if it's warranted for this cycle. How would 400 test e for 12 weeks + 400 eq 11 weeks be? Either of you care to talk about the ratios you use with these substances and why?

Re: the HCG. I'm definitely seeing that I want to avoid large doses, and I'm thinking that I may limit it to the last 3 weeks of the cycle this time out. The use from day one came from the sticky in this forum, specifically Tribal's "SWALE PCT Protocol," where he says:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on.

I gather that "horse in the barn" means keeping the boys normal sized, and that's something that got my notice. The wife is not 100% on board, and nut problems are in the top three as far as her concerns go.

[vassille]

I'm not using too much test because of the water retention/bloating issues. You can run test 500/Eq 500 with no problem. Is just a personal preference.
As with HCG will run a 3 weeks course, weeks 4-6 like a mid cycle bump, then again at the end week 12-14.

[slam damnit]

If I were to run 12 weeks vs. 10, then bumping the test down to 400 would allow me to get the extra two weeks out of the supply I ordered for 10 weeks at 500. Good enough?

[vassille]

that's fine

[slam damnit]

About to finally start the cycle laid out in this thread previously. It took me a longass time to get diet in check and feel like I'm really ready (41yo/6'/225/21%bf). Honestly, I could stand to lose a bit more fat first, but I'll admit I'm impatient. I do see some noticeable and positive changes all told this year; looking forward to a kickass 2007.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to revisit 10 weeks vs. 12 one last time.. Is it just a matter of personal preference / what I'm comfortable with, or are those last two weeks real gainers?

Patrick Bateman pointed me at Arimidex for on-cycle. Vasille, did I understand you correctly - 0.5mg ED, weeks 1-10?

[hrpiii]

would you mind posting up your cycle again, based on a lot of responses, there were going to be some tweaks made. Run it 10. The only difference between 10 wks and 12 wks will be the recovery. At 41, it may be more difficult to recover from 12 (unless you are looking at HRT down the road )

[vassille]

Well, I tried HCG 250iux2/week recently. Worked like a charm. I would recommend the same. .5 Arimidex is a good dose to keep bloat down(I used 10mg nolva ED), increase if needed. About 10 vs 12.....what I've noticed is that if I use HCG throughout the cycle it makes very little diference between 10 or 12 weeks. However, after 8 weeks what I do is see if I make anymore gains if not I stop anywhere between 8-12 weeks.

[vassille]

Originally Posted by hrpiii

would you mind posting up your cycle again, based on a lot of responses, there were going to be some tweaks made. Run it 10. The only difference between 10 wks and 12 wks will be the recovery. At 41, it may be more difficult to recover from 12 (unless you are looking at HRT down the road )

You right Hrpiii about the 12 weeks.
Anyway, an 8 week cycle- relatively easy recovery
10 week cycle-middle of the road
12 week cyale-HCG is a must IMO. Recovery is harder

[RRAdam]

I run hcg regardless with every cycle now. Its not always necessary, but always great to have. if you are running EQ along with test, then take it to 12 and stop the EQ at 11. That is much better than just running eq for 9.

The nolva isnt THAT liver toxic, but nevertheless it should only be run as needed, and dont be afraid to use it if you increase a cup size. dex or letro is better to run during the cycle, aromasin is great but expensive as hell. ATD is ok too from what i hear.

no fridge for the gear unless you plan on storing it for awhile (hell i dont even know if that helps for sure, but fridging anything else helps it keep) the hcg DOES need to be fridged though.


the .5mg of dex sounds good for starters

You are getting your cherry popped this time, so all this dosage stuff will be way more easier once you get a few in you. All of these dosages you see are "average" type deals. Once you start, and you know how your body reacts, then you will get a much better feel as to what you should/can do.

for example, i find that i can do a higher amount of gear and handle it fine for the most part. but even with a normal load of test, i still need 1mg of dex per day. I also find that I react weird to high amounts of EQ and that I can take a ****load of tren, but not M1T. I react great to normal doses of tbol and superdrol... and on and on ad nauseum... all of these things you will learn as you get going...

have fun and good luck