PROHORMONE FAQ - EVERYONE READ IN ITS ENTIRETY!!!

[tribal]

This is a FAQ to answer most typical questions. Please read EVERYTHING in here as it has TONS of knowledge on PH use, post-cycle, and everything in between.

Courtesy of Pogue -

Prohormone FAQ
By pogue
pogue22@ziplip.com
Revision 1.3 - 6/12/03

Special thanks to Tkarrde & roobear

Included here are some of the most common questions asked about
prohormones. This has been compiled into information based on some scientific
studies, but mostly from user feedback after years of success using
prohormones. Please keep in mind that this document might have some
errors and you will need to do much more reading before you decide whether
or not use prohormones.

1. What are prohormones?

Prohormones are synthetically manufactured compounds which convert to
anabolic hormones via enzymes in the liver; hormone precursors. They
are commonly abbreviated as PHs.

2. What are they used for?

Prohormones are used by athletes looking to increase size, strength,
endurance, reduce recovery time or add lean body mass. They are most
often used for increasing muscle mass or reducing bodyfat levels. Life
extension groups are also increasingly using prohormones as a means of
hormone replacement therapy, as an alternative to prescription drug use.

3. Do they have side effects?

Yes. Prohormones can have the same side effects as anabolic steroids,
and are dependant upon the user as to which side effects one might
experience. Some side effects are acne, hair loss, breast tissue
enlargement, and prostate swelling. The potential for these side effects does
exist, but it can be reduced if one uses proper precautionary measures
(see below). Generally, if a person is genetically predisposed to a
side effect it will occur (i.e.: if someone has a history of male pattern
baldness in the family, it could be assumed that this could be a side
effect experienced if certain prohormones are used)

4. Which prohormones convert to which compounds?

Here is a list
4 androstenediol (4AD or 4diol) converts to testosterone
19 nor-4-androstenediol (Nordiol or nordiol) converts to
nortestosterone or nandrolone
1 androstenediol (1AD) converts to 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone)
1,4 androstenedione and 1,4 androstenediol (1,4andro or Boldione)
converts to boldenone and slightly converts to estrogen (the diol version
does not convert to estrogen)
5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT
3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT
3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT
4 hydroxy androstenedione converts to 4 hydroxy testosterone which is
an aromatize inhibitor (blocks formation of estrogen)
7-KETO-DHEA does not convert to any active anabolic compounds
1-testosterone (1-test) is already an active compound and does not need
to undergo conversion

Compounds you want to avoid.
5 androstenediol (5AD or 5diol) converts to testosterone at a very low
rate and is an estrogen agonist
4 androstenedione (andro) converts to testosterone and estrone
(estrogen)
19 nor-4-androstenedione (norandro) converts to nortestosterone and
estrogen
DHEA converts to androstenedione and can be converted to all other
hormones
Pregnenolone converts to progesterone and can be converted to all other
hormones

5. How do prohormones work?

Basically, when they are administered into the system, they are broken
down in the liver and converted to their target hormone via certain
enzymes. There have been a number of quotes describing how much of the
hormone is converted, but there is no definitive answer as to how much of
the prohormone is converted into its target active. Once a certain
amount is created, the enzymes used for conversion become saturated and no
more can be converted. This is true with all the compounds, except for
1-testosterone which really isn't a prohormone.

6. What do the target hormones do?

Each hormone works in different ways once it is converted, but
essentially it attaches to an androgen receptor in the cells of your body. This
in turn increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, meaning
that your body is in a constant anabolic state (assuming you are
continuously supplying your body with the hormone). Here is a brief description
of each hormone and what it does.

Testosterone is the primary male hormone responsible for development of
the sex organs and muscle growth. Testosterone is both anabolic and
androgenic-anabolic meaning it causes muscle growth and androgenic meaning
that it causes development of secondary sex characteristics.
Testosterone converts to both DHT and estrogen in its parent form. Testosterone
is often the primary hormone used on a cycle of steroids. It is a mass
builder, and will often help with unwanted androgenic side effects of
other steroids. Although conversion to estrogen can cause many unwanted
side effects on its own, testosterone should generally be the base to
any cycle.

Nandrolone is an anabolic hormone, with not as much androgenic
potential. It attaches to the androgen receptor with greater affinity than
testosterone, but can cause a loss of libido and generally stays active in
the system much longer than does testosterone. This is the "safest"
choice for users who want to avoid most common side effects.

DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the primary androgenic hormone in the
body. It is responsible for increases in strength, as well as most of the
unwanted side effects common with steroids. DHT is converted from
testosterone via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT receptors are high in
the scale, skin and prostate; high DTH levels are the most common cause
of prostate swelling, acne, and male pattern baldness.

Boldenone is a veterinary hormone, which is commercially sold as
Equipoise. Equipoise is known as an alternative to nandrolone when using
steroids. It provides an increase in appetite, with some fat burning
potential. Boldenone converts to estrogen at about half the rate of
testosterone. Those who are looking to avoid some of the stronger androgenic
side effects also commonly use it. 1-testosterone is the 5 alpha
reduced version of Boldenone.

7. How do I take prohormones?

There are three common routes of administration for prohormones. These
are usually based on their efficacy (i.e. how much is absorbed). Since
the liver and stomach lining breaks down prohormones rather
efficiently, taking them orally is the poorest route of administration. Most
users prefer transdermal (topical) administration. When taken this way,
you apply it to your skin and it will continue being absorbed over a
period of 12 hours or so. Cyclodextrins or sublingual methods are also
commonly used, which is where the prohormones are dissolved under the
tongue. This also has a high level of absorption and works well. There
are also some products on the market which are sold as "intraoral" or
"intranasal". These are meant to be sprayed into the nostril prior to
your workout, and are generally only meant as preworkout boosts, not for a
cycle of prohormones.

Some manufactures have started selling prohormones in oral form with an
ester attached. This, in theory, will allow it to be slowly absorbed
for many hours similar to the other methods, but to my knowledge, there
have been no studies demonstrating that this method increases
bioavailability.

8. What is a cycle? What does stacking mean?

A cycle is generally used to describe a length of time and common
dosage when taking prohormones. Stacking means taking more than one
prohormone at a time to increase gains or reduce side effects. Common cycle
lengths are 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, and 8 weeks. I recommend 4 week
cycles, which seem to give the most gains with fewer sides. I would
not recommend going beyond 8 weeks.

Common stacks are 4AD and Nordiol, 1AD and 4AD, 1-test and 4AD, etc.
You will notice most everything is stacked with 4AD. This is because
testosterone gives you a bit more leverage, providing good gains and
overall anabolism, with reduced androgenic side effects. Each of the
prohormones can be taken alone, or taken together. The choice is yours and
should be made from reading this text, and all the user feedback from
this board and others. Research, research, research!

9. What is post cycle therapy?

Post cycle therapy is a tried and true method of helping to solidify
your gains by raising natural testosterone levels and lowering estrogen
levels once your cycle is over. When you add external hormones to your
body, your own natural production becomes suppressed. Your body
attempts to compensate your endocrine system by stabilizing the other
hormones, which results in an increase in estrogen. Once you quit supplying
your body with external hormones, your natural testosterone will be low
and estrogen will be high. Therefore, anti-estrogens are taken to halt
the manufacture of estrogen in the body. This will result in higher
testosterone levels, hence making it easier to keep your gains. Post
cycle therapy should begin the next day after the prohormones have stopped
being taken. Common post cycle therapy drugs are listed below with
dosages:

6OXO
6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor sold by Ergopharm. It is the best over
the counter anti-estrogen available for post cycle use.
Week 1 - 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
Week 2-3 - 400mg daily
Week 4 - 300mg daily

Formasin/Formastat/Aromazap
Note: 4 hydroxy androstenedione acts as a weak androgen and can cause
further suppression of natural testosterone, but can be used post cycle.
Dosages should be 250mg a day for the first two weeks, followed by
anywhere from 50-250mg a day for the next two.

Clomid
Clomid is a prescription fertility drug, but is highly available and
highly effective at blocking estrogen and increasing LH output.
Day 1 - 300mg
Day 2-11 100mg
Day 11-21 50mg
OR
150mg daily for 2 weeks
100mg daily for 2 weeks

Nolvadex
Nolvadex is also a prescription, which is highly available and blocks
estrogen at the receptor.
Week 1-2 - 40mg daily
Week 2-4 - 20mg daily

There are other prescription anti-estrogens available, but these two
will be fine unless side effects arise, so we won't discuss the other
options in this FAQ.

Other common post cycle favorites including high doses of flax oil,
ZMA, tribulus and an ECA stack coupled with reduced training volume and
increased calories (500 or so above maintenance). But, it is very
important to use an anti-estrogen for post cycle. I would never
recommend not using one unless the cycle length is 2 weeks or less.

10. What dosages should I use?

Dosages are different for the different routes of administration and
for the different hormones taken. Here is a basic outline of each
prohormone along with general cycles used, based on user feedback. For your
first cycle, I recommend sticking to a lighter dosing schedule for 2-4
weeks. Note: This is a general guideline. Dosages for any cycle can
be higher or lower, and some products may incorporate one or more of
these compounds so that the below amount might not be able to be
achieved. This is just a basic outline and is far from completely
accurate.

1AD

1AD is by far the most popular prohormone. It is considered to be the
most effective taken orally, and has resounding user feedback. It is
best stacked with 4AD to reduce side effects, the most common of which
include lethargy and reduced libido. 1AD should not be used
transdermally, and could be used sublingually, although there are few products
with this delivery system used. 1AD is commonly stacked with 4AD and
shouldn't be stacked with nordiol, or the DHT precursors.

4-6 week cycles are best taken at anywhere from 300-900mg daily. Take
in divided doses throughout the day to keep blood levels elevated.

4AD

4AD is the next best. It is almost always used with other hormones due
also to its resounding user feedback and adding large amounts of mass
from increases in testosterone and estrogen. 4AD can be taken orally,
transdermally, or sublingually.
2-6 week cycles are generally used. 4AD can be stacked with just about
anything.

Oral:
300-1500mg daily. Oral is probably the worst way to take this, but if
you are simply looking to reduce sides of 1AD, etc - it works. Take in
divided doses to ensure elevated blood levels.

Transdermal:
400-600mg daily with two applications in morning at night.

Sublingual:
Probably 15-50mg at a time, 3 times or more daily in divided doses.

Nordiol

Nordiol is the best prohormone for use by people who want to avoid the
common androgenic sides associated with the other hormones. Can be
taken orally, transdermally or sublingually. 2-4 week cycles recommended.
Heavily suppressive, despite what literature says. Nordiol is commonly
stacked with 4ad for mass, or 1,4andro for cutting or users wanting
reduced sides effects.

Oral:
500-800mg daily in divided doses

Transdermal:
500-800mg daily in split doses morning and night

Sublingual:
15-50mg in divided doses

1,4andro

1,4andro is renowned for causing appetite stimulation. It's low in
estrogenic sides and good for cutting or bulking. Some people claim that
transdermal administration works well, but the feedback I've seen has
been poor. Oral seems to be the route of administration, and the dione
version appears to work better than the diol. 1,4andro can be stacked
with just about anything. Taking 1,4andro for less than 4 weeks is
generally a waste because it takes quite a while for the effects to kick
in.

Oral:
300-600mg daily in divided doses.

Transdermal:
N/A

Sublingual:
N/A

1-testosterone

1-test is the active form of 1AD and is best taken transdermally or
sublingually, although oral products suspended in oil with an ether
attached also have very good feedback. 1-test is best stacked with 4AD
for mass or 1,4andro for cutting.

Oral:
150-300mg when taken in ethergel product in divided doses

Transdermal:
200-500mg daily or more in split doses

Sublingual:
Not sure


5AA/3 beta/3 alpha

These all convert to DHT at different rates and have slightly different
properties. I'm a little hazy on all of them, except that 5 alpha can
compete with estrogen for receptor activity when converted to DHT.
Some people have used 5AA in an oral product as a preworkout boost, while
others have used 3 alpha for a "hardening" agent.

Thanks to roobear for the below info on DHT precursors

3-Alpha/Beta
3-alpha/beta will illicit exactly the same anabolic/androgenic
responses, differing only in their conversion rates - 3-alpha 43% / 3-beta 9%
respectively. The bioavailability of 3-alpha/beta is purported to be
relatively low (by Bill himself) and thus would serve well to be
administered transdermally. These compounds are best used in conjunction with
other compounds, preferably of an anabolic nature (ie Nordiol, 1,4 Andro
and 4-AD) - inducing drastic increases in strength, vascularity and
muscle hardness.

3-Alpha
Oral:
100-300mg (lower dosage being more of a "stacking" quantity)

Transdermal:
50-150mg (lower dosage being more of a "stacking" quantity)

3-Beta
Oral:
Outdated - use 3-alpha

Transdermal:
200-500mg(lower dosage being more of a "stacking" quantity)

7-Keto-DHEA

This is slightly out of the scope of this FAQ, but is generally used
for cutting. This has been shown to increase thyroid output and lower
cortisol levels, without converting to target hormones. Used for cutting
stacked with other thermogenic compounds for 4-6 weeks.

Oral:
200mg in two divided doses

Transdermal:
100mg daily

11. Are prohormones legal?

Yes, currently they are legal in the US and some other countries.
Please visit www.usfa.biz and write your politicians to ensure
they stay that way. Prohormones are not tested for in job drug tests,
but they are probably banned and can potentially show up on a drug test
for athletics. Check your local laws for specific information.

12. Who should use prohormones?

Mature adults above the age of 21 looking for increases in lean muscle
mass or decreases in bodyfat levels. Most veterans will advise using
prohormones after several years of training, to ensure you have a good
feel for proper diet, nutrition and supplementation. Using prohormones
under the age of 18 is a very bad idea; it can result in the closure of
growth plates, thus resulting in permanently stunted growth; it can
also result in potentially serious endocrine system problems. Those with
potential for or already enlarged prostate or those susceptible to male
pattern baldness should not use prohormones; nor should prohormones be
used by people with heart conditions, who currently have gynocomastia,
or have liver or kidney problems. If you have any doubts, see a doctor
before using these compounds.

13. Can I take prohormones along with steroids?

This is a hotly debated subject. Yes, you can - but why? If you have
access to steroids, why would you bother with prohormones? Anabolic
steroids are already hormones in their current form and require no
conversion - hence, they are more powerful, albeit illegal.
The only compound I would say that you could take with any other
steroid would be
1-testosterone, which would be an equivalent of Primobolan or Equipose.
The only other thing I can think of would be taking 4AD with Fina to
reduce side effects. There is more information about this on boards like
Anabolicminds or Animal's board.

14. How can I avoid some of the potential side effects associated
with prohormones?

There are certain ancillary compounds available to treat potential side
effects of prohormones. Below is a list I compiled which is pretty
basic and should help clarify some of the issues of side effects.

Prostate Issues

The prostate is an organ at the neck of the bladder where it joins the
urethra. It is responsible for controlling urination and ejaculation.
Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult
urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that
general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased
testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate
issues, it's best not to use prohormones, though potentially the use of
nordiol might be acceptable.

Herbal treatments:
Saw Palmetto Extract - Usual dosage is 160mg several times daily
Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols - 300mg several times daily
Flax seed oil - anywhere from 5-20 tblspoons daily

Prescription Treatments:
Proscar/Propecia - blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT.
Ineffective with DHT derived hormones (1-test, 1ad, 5aa, etc)
Spironolactone - an anti androgen. Best not used for this, but used
topically (more below)

Acne

Acne is very common on prohormone cycles, and can range from mild to
moderate. It will go away once post cycle treatment concludes, or within
a few weeks of cession of the product. The best way to treat acne is
with the soaps available at your local grocery store or pharmacy. Just
pick up some Neutrogena or whatever and scrub your face twice a day or
use the body wash.

Hair Loss

Hair loss is caused by increased levels of DHT. Since DHT receptors
are heavy on the top of the scalp, some people will notice a lot of
shedding or a receding hairline on some cycles. There are various
treatments for this; the most common is topical Spironolactone available from
Nizoralman or Dr. Lee. The 2% will work as a preventative measure, while
the 5% will attempt to help grow some hair back. There are also other
methods, such as azelaic acid or Nizoral shampoo, but they are not
proven to be effective as spiro is.
If you are concerned you are losing your hair and are currently taking
something to help prevent it, prohormones are probably not the best
idea. If still interested in using prohormones, Nordiol might be the best
option available to you.

Gyno

Gynocomastia, or development of the breast tissue, is sometimes common
among aromatizing (converting to estrogen) prohormones. The first
symptoms are puffy and itchy or swollen nipples. If you start to notice
this while on a cycle, you need to start taking Nolvadex immediately.
Formasin/Aromazap/Formastat might work, but 6oxo is not going to help
this in most cases, so Nolvadex should ALWAYS be on hand for this
situation. It is highly available, not very expensive, and not illegal
to posses, so there is no reason not to have it. Don't wait and order
some when you start to get the first signs of gyno, because Nolvadex
needs to be taken as soon as symptoms of gyno appear. Start taking 40mg a
day until the symptoms subside, and you may want to continue to take
10mg the rest of your cycle as precaution.

Liver/Kidney

Prohormones have to pass through your liver in order to convert, no
matter what the route of administration, so higher levels of liver enzymes
in the blood is common during a cycle. Many steroid users take Milk
Thistle and ALA at high doses to combat this, and if you are concerned it
would be a good idea to take one or both of these to help that.
Problems with kidneys have not been an issue to my knowledge, but steroid
users will often also take cranberry juice extract to help with that.

Depression

Some people report mild or moderate depression, especially post cycle
when using 6oxo. This can be cured with prescription drugs such as
Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc. It can also be fought with herbal supplements
such as St Johns Wort, 5-HTP or Sam-E. If you go with the herbal
route, St Johns Wort should be 300mg 2-3 times daily, 5-HTP at 100mg several
times daily, or 100-200mg of Sam-E once daily. You can combine all
three if depression is extreme, otherwise my pick would be St. Johns Wort.

Testicular Atrophy

Many users report testicular shrinkage during a cycle. The testes will
come back to full size once you start post cycle. If they do not, then
it's recommended you take Clomid and possibly even HCG to help restore
them.

Sleeplessness

Some people report having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep on a
cycle. My recommendation is to take 1mg to 3mg of melatonin 30 minutes
before bed time. Some other options are Valerian root, GABA, Tylenol
PM or Kava Kava (potentially stressful on the liver).

15. What kind of training should I use when using prohormones?

Everyone has their own opinion on this, and you should use whatever
works for use. Most people put an emphasis on higher volume while using
prohormones, and you can add more isolation sets and workout more
frequently due to increased recovery time. But don't overtrain. Just because
you're using prohormones doesn't mean you need to train daily or twice
daily. Also, doing cardio on prohormones is fine. I recommend 2-3
times weekly of 20 minutes, if at all.

16. How should I eat when on prohormones?

Try and eat 1-2g of protein per pound of body weight. Try and eat
500-1000 calories above maintenance, or more if bulking. Generally,
standard nutrition guidelines should be followed. If cutting, try and eat
10-12 calories per pound of bodyweight, while keeping protein high.

17. Should I take any other supplements while using prohormones?

Take whatever you normally take. If you take creatine, it's fine to
continue taking it while using prohormones. Some people prefer to save
it for post cycle to help retain some of the water weight. Otherwise,
the usual stuff like a multivitamin, a good protein powder and flax seed
oil should be standard issue for any athlete.

18. What are some good manufacturers of prohormone products?

My personal picks would be Molecular Nutrition, Ergopharm, Avant Labs,
BDC Nutrition, San, Syntrax or 1 fast 400. These are stand up
companies that generally pump out quality products.

19. Can I make my own prohormone transdermal/oral/sublingual?

Yes, there are several companies that offer prohormone powders in bulk
such as Kilosports, Beyond a Century and 1 fast 400. You can buy
powders from them and make your own capsules, cyclodextrins or transdermals
easily. Visit Anabolicminds or Avant Labs message boards for a wealth
of how-to information.

20. Can I inject prohormones?

This is out of the scope of this FAQ, but yes you can. The results
have been mixed, there have been some questions of products purity used in
injectables, and there is a question of whether or not using them for
this purpose is legal.

21. Is there anything I should know about transdermal delivery?

Transdermals should be applied twelve hours apart. It is a good idea
to apply them after showering and to rotate application spots daily.
Apply lotion to application spots not in use. This is a good way to
avoid a rash from the topical, which is a common side effect reported by
users. Some prefer to scrub themselves with a luffa or sponge before
applying them to remove the first layer of dead skin cells for optimal
delivery. It is also a good idea to wear latex gloves when applying, and
wash your hands when you are finished to avoid getting the solution
into your eyes or other sensitive areas. Keep in mind that high amounts
of sweating or getting the area wet too soon after application will wash
it off, so it might have to be reapplied if this occurs.

22. Is there anything I should know about oral/liquid delivery?

There are many products on the market with liquid delivery systems.
You will need to drink these, and most of them taste badly. Just try and
get them down as quickly as possible, or mix with another flavored
liquid to help the taste. Also keep in mind that liquid and oral delivery
methods are generally less effective. Even if the product is
esterfied, it is still a good idea to take it several times daily in small
divided doses to ensure saturated blood levels at all times.

23. Is there anything I should know about sublingual delivery?

Try and let the product dissolve under your tongue and do not eat or
drink anything for around 10-20 minutes after you take the product. As
with orals, you will need to take it several times daily to maintain
blood levels.

24. Which prohormones are best used in a bulking cycle and what kind
of gains can I expect?

Most people prefer the combination of 1-test and 4ad. This is a tried
and true stack combination and most people seem to gain the best from
it. Adding 1,4andro is also common to increase appetite and may help
gains. How much one will gain off a cycle depends on your diet and
training but gaining 10lbs in 4 weeks is quite common.

25. Which prohormones are best for a cutting cycle?

Most commonly, people will use non-aromatizing hormones such as 1-test
or DHT precursors to act as an anti-catabolic and increase hardness.
However, low doses of 4ad may help, and adding 1,4andro can also be
beneficial.

26. Is it okay to drink alcohol while taking prohormones?

No, it is a really poor idea to drink while doing bodybuilding/weight
lifting in general, but taking them while using prohormones is even
worse. Taking large amounts of prohormones, especially orally, can cause
increased liver stress. When you add alcohol into the equation it is a
potential for disaster. If you have to drink, try to do it moderately
and take milk thistle and/or ALA to help combat potential problems.
Although, it would be best to avoid it completely.

27. Are there any other good documents I can read about prohormones
or related topics?

Yes, there are several, but they are slightly dated.

Prohormones

4AD Information and conversion
rates by Patrick Arnold

Prohormone breakdown
by Big Cat

Post Cycle Therapy

Understanding
Post Cycle "T" Recovery by William Llewellyn

Clomid,
Nolvadex and Testosterone Stimulation by William Llewellyn

Coming
Off a Cycle by Marcus Haidam

If you have any other good links, please let me know and I will add
them.

28. Can I overdose on prohormones?

Possibly, if you are taking over a gram to two grams a day orally then
it could cause some liver strain or stomach discomfort - it will also
probably increase the side effects of the hormone. You should never go
over 2 grams daily for prohormones, you will not see anymore gains, the
side effects will probably be unbearable and most likely the enzymes
will be saturated for them to be effective.

29. I can't grow! Should I use prohormones?

No. Anyone should be able to grow naturally without the use of
prohormones; prohormones merely speed up the process. If you can't grow
naturally, please post your diet, training and supplement routine for
review. Most likely, you are making some errors-so please try and correct
these basic issues before you resort to using prohormones. They are not
magic and will not work without proper diet and training.

30. Can women use prohormones?

Yes, they can - but the doses shouldn't be as high as using it for men.
Using less androgenic hormones like Nordiol or 1,4andro is recommended
above the others and no anti-estrogen is needed post cycle. I would
recommend using nordiol at 300mg daily or 1,4andro 300mg daily for 2-4
weeks and tapering off the dosages slowly towards the end and possibly
using tribulus extract post cycle.

31. When's the best time to take oral prohormones and should I take
them with food?

You want to take them in divided doses through the day, the standard is
3 doses 3 times daily. Taking them with food is optional, but if you
take them with a high fat meal they can help absorption. Also keep
hydrated (you should be doing this anyway) so as to avoid a burning
sensation when urinating, as experienced with some prohormones. Most prefer
to take them preworkout to give them a little extra boost.

32. Can I be drug tested for prohormones?

Since prohormones convert into active anabolic compounds, it is the
concern of some that they will be tested for in a drug test. The answer
is almost always no, they will not show up in a drug test. Drug testing
for anabolic steroids is very expensive and has to be asked for
specifically. So, unless you are on probation for steroid use, or are a
professional athlete, you will not be tested for prohormones/steroids.
Also, since most prohormones have very short half lives, they will clear
out of your system within a matter of days. General drug tests only test
for opiates, ampetamines, cocaine and marijuana. However, if you are
planning to join the military, or a sports organization that bans the
use of these substances, it would be in your best interest to avoid them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prohormones FAQ: Update
By pogue
pogue22@ziplip.com
12/26/03

The data contained in this update has been compiled mostly from user
feedback along with some data present in compounds that have been
released to the public in the past, or information from the pharmacutical
companies that created these compounds. It is always a good idea to have
a full physical before using these substances, along with having blood
work done to check for liver/kidney anamolies.

New Compounds

Methyl 1-Test

Methyl 1-Test is 1-testosterone with an alteration to the molecule that
allows it to pass through the liver more freely without degredation.
When a compound is methylated it changes the physical structure of the
compound and it tends to act differently in the body. In the case of
methyl 1-test, it seems to be a much stronger anabolic without
particularly androgenic sides. Methyl 1-test is being sold in 5mg and 10mg
tablets, as well as in powder and solutions. It seems to differ from other
methylated compounds such as Winstrol and Dianabol in that it is more
stronger mg per mg without very much conversion to DHT. The typical
dosing pattern seems to be 5-10mg once daily. Those above 200lbs or
experienced steroid/prohormone users might see benefits in 20mg ore more,
however the side effects seem to be harsher the more you use. Some of
the more common side effects reported are lethargy, decreased appetite,
very painful pumps as well as high blood pressure.

Methyl 1-test is a very powerful compound and is not recommended for
beginners. This is clearly a drug and should be thought of as such. The
only reason this compound is legal is due to the fact that it was never
scheduled as a steroid since it was never manufactured, although its
chemical structure is very similar to oral Primobolan. Users of methyl
1-test should be on the lookout for increased liver values, high blood
pressure, extreme lethargy and pumps, as well as decreased appetite.
Methyl 1-test should definintely be stacked with 4AD to help counteract
some of these sides and give you the benefits of testosterone
supplementation. Users should get blood work done before and after cycles of
this compound.

A cycle of methyl 1-test should not last any longer than 6 weeks.
However, most users seem to prefer the 2 weeks on/2 weeks off pattern.

Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (Finagenx)

This is a relatively new compound on the market. The manufacturer
claims that this is a precursor to the powerful steroid trenbolone, however
this does not seem to be the case. It does appear to convert to a
steroid hormone, but it is not tren. It is a dione so you will have some
conversion to estrogen even before it converts to its parent hormone. It
is unknown what the anabolic/androgenic ratio of its parent hormone is,
how it acts in the body, or if it can aromatize or not. This is a very
expensive compound for the amount of gains users are reporting. The
dosing seems to be very high, although I am not sure of the dosing
pattern at this point. I would personally avoid this product. It is too
expensive, with very little feedback.

A methylated version of this compound should be out soon and sounds
promising.

Hydroxy Testosterone

This testosterone has come on the market recently in the form of
transdermals and powder. It is actually nothing like its parent other than
the name. It is very mild in terms of anabolic and androgenic potential
and would be relatively weak on its own. However, this compound has
some very interesting attributes that make it very different from all the
other steroids on the market. With the 4 hydroxl position on the
molecule, it has the added benefit of not converting to estrogen or DHT.
This would make it very similar to the compound Clostebol and ideal for
cutting when used on its own. It also has the very interesting
attribute of being a mild aromatize inhibitor and 5AR inhibitor (which prevents
conversion of testosterone to DHT). One of its metabolites is
Formastane (4 hydroxy androstenedione) which is also an aromatize inhibitor.
It has also been claimed that this compound will stimulate LH output,
which would be great for bridging inbetween cycles and obviously not
cause any form of supression. However, I have not seen any data to confirm
this.

This compound appears to be very weak on its own. With the high price
per gram for the powder, it would be a poor choice to use on its own.
It does stack well with any other compounds, and like everything else
would be optimally used with 4AD where it would impart very lean gains
with virtually no sides. Since this is such a new compound, I really
have no idea on what the dosing pattern would be. I would expect to see
a methylated version of this on the market soon. As with all other
steroids, this would be a very poor oral compound. It would probably be
best used transdermally. Making it into an injectable seems to be very
troublesome, as it is not very oil soluble without an ester.

Hydroxy Nandrolone

This compound is the same as a steroid known as Oxabolone which has
been off the market for years. It has the attributes of being quite
anabolic and not very androgenic. It cannot make the conversion to DHN,
which is a relatively weak on its own anyway. It has also been speculated
that this steroid acts as an aromatize inhibitor, like Hydroxy
Testosterone, but I have seen no evidence for this either.

Most information on this steroid seems to be speculation. Since it is
a nandrolone derivative, it might have progesteronal activity. Also,
since there is so little feedback on this compound it is hard to say.
It would probably be similar to the popular steroid Deca, albeit weaker.
It might make a closer match to trenbolone in activity, but there is
little evidence to suggest that at this point. With the other compounds,
any information on dosage is speculation at this point. A methylated
compound known as 17aa 4OHN is soon to be replaced. I have heard claims
that this should be similar to Anavar at an even lower dosage.
However, this has not been released yet, so we will have to wait and see. As
with all methylated compounds, one would want to take similar
precautions when using these types of oral based steroids.

Hydroxy Nandrolone is illegal in California and Nevada, but not
federally schedulled.

Methyl 5AA

Another methylated version of an older prohormone, methyl 5AA should be
a similar match to Proviron or Masteron. This compound will make a
conversion to Methyl-DHT in the liver through the 3bHSD enzyme. It should
be very well suited as a preworkout stimulant, as well as reducing the
effects of estrogen and SHBG on a cycle. Since DHT acts as an
aromatize inhibitor, it can help reduce circulating estrogen on a cycle in leu
of typical anti-estrogens such as Nolvadex or 6OXO. Oral DHT has also
been shown to bind to SHBG, allowing for more of other more powerful
androgens to attach to the receptor, allowing for an overall more
anabolic effect.

One problem with DHT and its precursors is the fact that they are
deactivated in skeletal muscle through the 3 alpha HD enzyme to prohormones
like 5AA and 3 alpha. This seems to happen when an abundance of
androgens exist, and is why DHT, even more potent than testosterone, does not
make for a great muscle builder. Another concern for its users is the
strong androgenic effets of DHT. This would obviously be a concern
with individuals with potential prostate issues or androgenic alopecia.
However, since this prohormone is making a conversion in the liver,
instead of high 5AR saturated areas like the scalp and prostate, it would
probably not have as many negative side effects as even typical
4AD/testosterone would.

The dosage seems to be in the low range. Anywhere from 5-30mg anytime
of day would work. It sounds like it would be particularly beneficial
preworkout, where it would impart some of the positive benefits on
neural activity, giving the user added aggression, energy and strength to
have a better workout. As with all methylated compounds, similar
precaution should be taken of not running the compound for more than 6 weeks
and having blood work done to ensure the liver is in proper working
function.

Methyl 1,4diol

Here we have a methylated version of the boldenone precursor, 1,4diol.
In this version, the methylated version of the diol prohormone has been
used instead of the dione. This will allow the hormone only direct
conversion to its parent hormone, methylboldenone (Methandrostenolone)
better known as Dianabol. Since this is a direct precursor to Dianabol, I
would expect the same effects of it such as bloating, water retention
and the high possibily of gyno. This is due to the fact that boldenone
can aromatize into estrogen, here we would have a more powerful
methylated estrogen, Methyl-estradiol. This would obviously be a very good
mass builder, imparting gains in size and strength in a very short peroid
of time. Obviously, quite a bit of it will be water though. Just as
you would run Dianabol, you would want to stack it around
4AD/testosterone. You would want to have a good anti-estrogen on hand such as
Nolvadex or Arimidex.

Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should
probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones.
Again, you would not want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have
blood work done once the cycle is completed.

Methyl 4AD

As if you didn't see this one coming, we now have a methylated version
of our favorite prohormone, 4AD. The problem with this hormone, is it
will directly convert to methyltestosterone, which is a very poor
compound. Methyltestosterone will aromatize to methyl-estradiol and convert
to methyl-DHT. The sides of these would obviously be much harsher than
using its non methylated counterpart. The only positive effect I could
see from methyl-4AD would be if it had instrinsic anabolic activity
before conversion, which we have no idea about. The other good use for
this would be as a preworkout boost, where we would have the added
aggression and CNS stimulating effects of 4AD. Just using it preworkout
would allow us to get the benefits, without the negatives, along with
relatively no HPTA shutdown.

Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should
probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones. I
have seen dosages recommended for 5-30mg daily. Again, you would not
want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have blood work done once the
cycle is completed.

Products Not Yet on the Market

I have added a few products I would expect to see out soon. Some of
these may never come to light, but most probably will. So I decided to
through them in anyway.

Methyl Nordiol

This compound should be fairly similar to the unpopular steroid
Nilevar. Being a direct precursor to methyl-nandrolone, we would see
increases in methyl-estradiol and methyl-DHN. Giving us a weak anabolic with
more sides than we would expect from this weaker hormone. I would also
expect there to be progestonal activity with this. So, although this
seems to be another poor compound, it might have some good use in women
or as a preworkout booster.

Methyl Hydroxy Testosterone

I would expect this to be similar to 17aa 4OHN. It will probably be
very similar to Oral Turnibol where as it won't convert to estrogen or
DHT, it will impart gains on strength and hardness, rather than mass
gains.

A Word About Methylated Compounds

I feel we are now at the pinnacle of prohormone development. We now
have prohormones/steroids that are methylated for almost complete
bioavaibility. This is obviously a dream come true for individuals looking
for true legal alternatives to illegal steroids. However, we need to
realize that these are drugs in the true sense of the word. These can be
very dangerous if misused or abused. It is imparitive that people
think of these as drugs instead of typical OTC supplements that you can
take lightly and not be concerned about possibly bodily harm.

It is very easy to rationalize the fact that hepatoxicity doesn't
happen, or that it happens in very minute amounts, but when we look at
studies dealing with oral steroids we only have ones that we have seen on
the market for years. With methyl 1-test and others, we have no idea if
they are as hepatoxic as Halotestin or as mild as Proviron. It is
always a good idea to get blood work done before and after a cycle to
ensure that your liver is in proper health and you do not have underlying
conditions that could be slowly killing you. Please be safe, and respect
that these are powerful chemicals with potential to cause great gains
as well as harm your body.

A Word About Liver Protectants

A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as
Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using
methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you
use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will
increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although
increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any
drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated.
A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and
after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have
been damaged by methylated compounds.

I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains
in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when
planning your cycle.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really hate to write out another preacher post, but I feel it just
has to be done. This is a total rant on my part, so please keep that in
mind while reading this.

I am bombarded daily with the same questions over and over. These
people ademantly refuse to follow any sort of advice or guidelines to using
prohormones. Some of this can also be used for steroids and in fact
most supplements in general for beginners. So, lets get started.

Eligibility of using Prohormones

Using prohormones is not for everyone. In fact, most people shouldn't
use prohormones. I am not going to make the call for people to whether
or not one should be able to use prohormones, because that is not my
place. What I am suggesting is a general guideline to make sure you are
ready for using prohormones as an individual, and as a bodybuilder.
So, here are the rules:

1) If you have been training for less than a year YOU SHOULD NOT
USE PROHORMONES. This is very simple. You need to have some
experience in proper training behind you before you start supplementing with
exogenous hormones. There is no reason to use them at this point in
time, you can make great gains naturally.

2) If you are under 21 YOU SHOULD NOT USE PROHORMONES. This
argument I have with people everyday. I tell people "You should not use
prohormones under 21." Always the response is "Okay, so what
prohormone would be the safest?". WRONG ANSWER, you should not be using
prohormones!!! It is that simple. There is not a "safest" one for you, there
are none. I am sick and tired of crybaby teenagers asking me how to
use prohormones. Go pick up some creatine and leave prohormones for
someone else. Still not convinced? Read this:
Teenagers
and Prohormones/Steroids

3) If you do not eat sufficient calories (ie: 6 meals a day) to gain
naturally YOU SHOULD NOT USE PROHORMONES. This is so important.
Diet is the key to bodybuilding. You could train all you want, but if
you're not eating, you're not going to add the size you want. Please,
buy a cookbook, get some protein powder, do whatever it takes to get
those calories.

4) If you do not get at least 8 hours of sleep at night YOU SHOULD
NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. Proper rest is essential to building a
better body. Probably more important than most people realize. If you
are not getting enough sleep, don't waste your time with hormones.

5) If you want to drink beer, use recreational drugs, party all the
time, etc YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. If you are
drinking more than once a week, don't waste your time. You need to make a
determination for yourself what your goals are. If your goals are to be
drunk everyday, then more power to you. But don't take prohormones in
the misguided since that they will help you stay "anti-catabolic" or
some bull****. I know its hard when your friends want to go and drink all
the time, but sometimes you have to make a choice.

6) If you have a previous medical condition such as heart problems,
diabetes, enlarged prostate, or other potential life threatening ailments
YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. We have no clue about the
long term effects of prohormones. People who use them are using them
at their own risk in hopes of bettering themselves, but making muscle
should not make you at risk for killing or seriously injuring yourself.
Take a step back and decide what is more important to you: your long
term health, or some muscle?

7) If you are concerned about potential side effects from estrogen or
DHT YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES. This is more for the
people who say "what is the best prohormone without side effects?".
Very dumb question. There is no such thing. Estrogen and DHT play a
major role in gains, and if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't
be using these substances. Part of the enjoyment of using prohormones
should be understanding how they work in your body, so you can taper
them for your own needs. If you say "I'm scared of estrogen" then don't
use prohormones. All of them can potentially increase estrogen. Sorry,
thats just the way it is. You can always take ancilleries, but if you
are asking this question, you obviously didn't know that.

8) If you can only buy stuff from GNC YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING
PROHORMONES. Get a credit card, genuis. Ruin your credit? Find a site
that excepts money orders. There is absolutely no excuse for shopping
at GNC. Don't complain that you can't order stuff from the internet
because you live in Siberia or ruined your credit, or your mommie won't
let you use her credit card. Either buy them from a reputable online
company or don't buy them at all. You will get stuck with a ****ty
product or pay so much damn money, you might as well just go get pec
implants.

9) If you weight 150lbs or under YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING
PROHORMONES. You have not gained enough naturally yet, or have enough
experience in diet or training to justify exogenous hormone use. Please
review your diet and training.

If you have to say the following things to justify your use of
prohormones, you should not be using them:

I cannot eat enough because of _______.
I cannot train properly because of _______.
I cannot get enough sleep because of _______.
I am younger than 21.
I am concerned about the _______ side effect of prohormones, so I want
to use something that is free of side effects.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING PROHORMONES

I feel for you, and understand your situation, but the fact remains.
Just because you are trying to accomodate your poor workouts and diet
with prohormones is not going to work. Learn how to eat, sleep, and
workout properly FIRST.

Now, if you have passed the first part, you are doing good. You make
the bear minimum to quality for using prohormones. Congradulations,
have a cookie.

Planning your cycle

This is the next important part of using prohormones. Don't run out to
GNC and buy the first bottle that says "Testosterone Booster" on the
label, or what your buddy at the gym said he took to get "jacked up".
Don't be a dumb consumer. Read up, and figure out what you want. Don't
get stuck on one thing or another just because you heard it was good,
or you are scared of a certain side effect. Read through this site, and
others looking for feedback on particular products. This is also key:
UNDERSTAND HOW STEROID HORMONES WORK. Please read about how
people plan steroid cycles, and how steroid hormones work in the body.
Prohormones are just precursors to steroids, so we try and plan cycles
out similar to them. Read all you can. Take the time out to learn what
you put in your body and how its going to effect you. Don't be a
neglegent idiot and take something without understanding it, because you
will reap the consequences. Maybe not now, or even if you do cycles
later, but something will happen. It always does.

So, here are the rules for using prohormones properly.

1) Plan out your cycle before you purchase. If you just run out and
buy something for the sake of buying it, you are going to get stuck with
using it. A lot of people come to me and ask "How can I use 100mg of
nordiol caps?" The answer is simple. You can throw them in the garbage
or sell them on eBay. Don't waste your time with very low dose orals
or products containg andro, 5AD or DHEA. Also, don't use products that
contain herbs like tribulus or chrysin. They are not effective at
doing **** except draining your wallet. Stick with well known, good
products. If you were thinking of buying a product like that, stop and go
back over the first part of the post or read the
Prohormone
FAQ.

2) Buy some Nolvadex. This is simple. Buy some Nolvadex. Can't get
it? Don't use prohormones. Very simple. The reasons for having this
available to you should be obvious. If you don't know why you need
Nolvadex, you shouldn't be using prohormones.

3) Decide which side effects concern you most, and plan your cycle
around that. Concerned with hairloss? Use nordiol. Concerned with
prostate enlargement? Use nordiol. Concerned with acne? Hey, I hear if you
go to the grocery store they have this great new stuff called SOAP. If
you have serious acne and can't stand any more, don't use prohormones.
Starting to get the picture?

If you want to use a compound void of most side effects, nordiol is
your best bet. 1,4andro is the next best. It's really easy to get caught
up in being scared by side effects, but if you understand how steroid
hormones work, you will realize that there are no such things as side
effects, they are just mechanisms of the hormones. Buy ancilleries for
side effects you are concerned about. Such as spironolactone for hair
loss, or Nolvadex for estrogen problems.

4) Always use 4AD on a cycle. But you just said if I was concerned
about side effects to use nordiol-- SHUT UP!
Always use 4AD on a cycle, even if its a small amount. Some people are
going to disagree with me here, but this is the best way to use
prohormones. Plan your cycle around 4AD like a steroid user will do a cycle
around testosterone. Same principle, applies here also.

5) Plan your diet and training around your prohormone use. Plan
ahead, decide what you're going to eat and how you're going to train. This
is pretty obvious to most, since they want to get the most out of their
prohormones.

Well, thats about it. Remember: you don't have to use prohormones.
You can make gains without them, in fact you can make gains quickly
without them if you dedicate yourself to doing it. Don't jump into
prohormones without all the knowledge you can get.

This is a modified version of my steroids post in the supplements
forum, geared for people to use steroids. The ideals are essentially the
same. This is basically for very new beginners, and some things in here
people might disagree with or have varying opinions about, but its
pretty basic info and I think it should be obvious to most, but for the
sake of some people who don't know this, I am posting this. I hope it
helps.

I am bombarded daily with the same questions over and over. These
people ademantly refuse to follow any sort of advice or guidelines to using
steroids. So, lets get started.

Eligibility of using Steroids

Using steroids is not for everyone. In fact, most people shouldn't use
steroids. I am not going to make the call for people to whether or not
one should be able to use steroids, because that is not my place. What
I am suggesting is a general guideline to make sure you are ready for
using steroids as an individual, and as a bodybuilder. So, here are the
rules:

1) If you have been training for less than 2-3 years YOU SHOULD NOT
USE STEROIDS. This is very simple. You need to have some
experience in proper training behind you before you start supplementing with
exogenous hormones. There is no reason to use them at this point in
time, you can make great gains naturally.

2) If you are under 21 YOU SHOULD NOT USE STEROIDS. This
argument I have with people everyday. I tell people "You should not use
steroids under 21." Always the response is "Okay, so what steroid would
be the safest?". WRONG ANSWER, you should not be using steroids!!! It
is that simple. There is not a "safest" one for you, there are none. I
am sick and tired of crybaby teenagers asking me how to use steroids.
Go pick up some creatine and leave steroids for someone else. Still
not convinced? Read this:
Teenagers
and steroids/Steroids

3) If you do not eat sufficient calories (ie: 6 meals a day) to gain
naturally YOU SHOULD NOT USE STEROIDS. This is so important.
Diet is the key to bodybuilding. You could train all you want, but if
you're not eating, you're not going to add the size you want. Please,
buy a cookbook, get some protein powder, do whatever it takes to get
those calories.

4) If you do not get at least 8 hours of sleep at night YOU SHOULD
NOT BE USING STEROIDS. Proper rest is essential to building a
better body. Probably more important than most people realize. If you are
not getting enough sleep, don't waste your time with hormones.

5) If you want to drink beer, use recreational drugs, party all the
time, etc YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING STEROIDS. If you are drinking
more than once a week, don't waste your time. You need to make a
determination for yourself what your goals are. If your goals are to be
drunk everyday, then more power to you. But don't take steroids in the
misguided since that they will help you stay "anti-catabolic" or some
bull****. I know its hard when your friends want to go and drink all the
time, but sometimes you have to make a choice.

6) If you have a previous medical condition such as heart problems,
diabetes, enlarged prostate, or other potential life threatening ailments
YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING STEROIDS. People who use them are using
them at their own risk in hopes of bettering themselves, but making
muscle should not make you at risk for killing or seriously injuring
yourself. Take a step back and decide what is more important to you: your
long term health, or some muscle?

7) If you are concerned about potential side effects from estrogen or
DHT YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING STEROIDS. This is more for the
people who say "what is the best steroid without side effects?". Very dumb
question. There is no such thing. Estrogen and DHT play a major role
in gains, and if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be using
these substances. Part of the enjoyment of using steroids should be
understanding how they work in your body, so you can taper them for your
own needs. If you say "I'm scared of estrogen" then don't use
steroids. All of them can potentially increase estrogen. Sorry, thats just
the way it is. You can always take ancilleries, but if you are asking
this question, you obviously didn't know that.

8) If you do not have a source that has the available steroids that
you want, then wait until you find a proper source. There are some good
products for beginners, such as longer esters that don't need to be
injected daily. Some things are best suited after you have several cycles
under your belt. If you cannot find what you're looking for, be
patient and wait until you find a proper source that has what you're looking
for. Don't make do with subpar products or cycles that you don't want
to run.

9) If you weight 180lbs or under YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING
STEROIDS. You have not gained enough naturally yet, or have enough
experience in diet or training to justify exogenous hormone use. Please review
your diet and training.

If you have to say the following things to justify your use of
steroids, you should not be using them:

I cannot eat enough because of _______.
I cannot train properly because of _______.
I cannot get enough sleep because of _______.
I am younger than 21.
I am concerned about the _______ side effect of steroids, so I want to
use something that is free of side effects.

YOU SHOULD NOT BE USING STEROIDS

I feel for you, and understand your situation, but the fact remains.
Just because you are trying to accomodate your poor workouts and diet
with steroids is not going to work. Learn how to eat, sleep, and workout
properly FIRST.

Now, if you have passed the first part, you are doing good. You make
the bear minimum to quality for using steroids. Congradulations, have a
cookie.

[tribal]

Planning your cycle

This is the next important part of using steroids. Decide what cycle
you want to do and review it with the other board members. Don't just
take Winstrol or Dianabol by itself because that is only what your source
has, or what your buddy at the gym said he took to get "jacked up".
Don't be a dumb consumer. You are paying a lot of money for these
substances, so be aware of what you want, including brands and quanity. Read
up, and figure out what you want. Don't get stuck on one thing or
another just because you heard it was good, or you are scared of a certain
side effect. Read through this site, and others looking for feedback on
certain cycles. This is also key: UNDERSTAND HOW STEROID HORMONES
WORK. Please read about how people plan steroid cycles, and how
steroid hormones work in the body. Read all you can. Take the time out
to learn what you put in your body and how its going to effect you.
Don't be a neglegent idiot and take something without understanding it,
because you will reap the consequences. Maybe not now, or even if you do
cycles later, but something will happen. It always does. Also, read
through the FAQ, Steroid Profiles and Best of Section. Do a search for
what you are thinking of running. Ask intelligent questions based on
research you have done yourself.

So, here are the rules for using steroids properly.

1) Plan out your cycle before you purchase. If you just run out and
buy something for the sake of buying it, you are going to get stuck with
using it. A lot of people ask "How can I run a cycle using Winstrol or
Dianabol only?" The answer is simple. You don't. Don't waste your
time with oral only cycles. Plan out a proper cycle with injectable
steroids, or don't do one at all. If you want to test the waters and see
how you do, then you could possibly run a cycle of Anavar or something
for 2 weeks to see how you react, but I really wouldn't bother.

2) Always have ancilleries on hand. This is simple. Buy some
Nolvadex & finasteride. The finasteride is optional, but don't get caught
experiencing side effects and not having ancilleries around. Your source
should always be able to get you ancilleries, so this really shouldn't
be an issue. The reasons for having this available to you should be
obvious. If you don't know why you need Nolvadex, you shouldn't be using
steroids.

3) Always use testosterone on a cycle. This should be fairly simple.
Testosterone should be the base of any cycle, always. Testosterone
gives us the best gains, while leveraging out the side effects. Don't be
concerned about "estrogen" or "DHT" because that is the ignorant way to
view it. If you are concerned about side effects, then have the proper
ancilleries on hand for that occasion.

4) Plan your diet and training around your steroids use. Plan ahead,
decide what you're going to eat and how you're going to train. This is
pretty obvious to most, since they want to get the most out of their
steroids.

5) Always use HCG post cycle. This is a must. HCG will allow you to
bring your nuts back. Even on milder cycles, HCG should always be used
with Clomid or Nolvadex.

Well, thats about it. Remember: you don't have to use steroids. You
can make gains without them, in fact you can make gains quickly without
them if you dedicate yourself to doing it. Don't jump into steroids
without all the knowledge you can get. Comments are welcome.

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1. Transdermal basics

Q: What is transdermal delivery?

Transdermal delivery is a method of delivering active drugs through the skin barrier, and is in many cases superior to other forms of delivery (oral, sublingual, etc). It involves applying active substances (such as prohormones) dissolved in a carrier (a substance or blend of substances designed to promote delivery of the active ingredient past the skin barrier).


Q: Why is transdermal administration of prohormones superior to oral administration?

There are numerous reasons why transdermal delivery can be preferable. The first is that transdermal delivery allows prohormones to avoid first pass metabolism in the liver. Most prohormones are readily destroyed in the digestive tract and liver, often making the dosages required (and money spent) much higher compared to transdermal delivery. It is estimated that transdermal prohormones have a 30-40% absorption rate, compared to 5-15% for oral prohormones. Also, certain hormonal substances may be toxic to the liver, and transdermal delivery significantly lessens this. Secondly, orally delivered prohormones have very short half-lives and must be taken 3-4 times daily. Not only is this inconvenient, but it means that during certain periods (such as sleep) blood levels of the hormone will be very low. Transdermal delivery effectively leads to a steady release over 12 or more hours, solving both of these problems.



Q: What are the advantages and disadvantages of transdermal administration of prohormones when compared to sublingual/nasal administration?

Sublingual (absorption in the mouth, like a lozenge) and nasal delivery is limited by the amount that can be absorbed by the mucous membranes. The maximum amount of hormone that can be delivered is around 25 mg, and blood levels are elevated for 2-3 hours, compared to ~12 for transdermal. Therefore, sublingual and nasal prohormones must be dosed at least 5 times a day to be effective. However, sublingual/nasal delivery delivers 80-90% of the actives to the bloodstream, making it a very efficient carrier. A combination of transdermal application (for steady blood levels) and sublingual/nasal application (to spike blood levels, particularly pre-workout) could be effective.



Q: If I apply a transdermal hormone to a certain muscle group, does it increase strength in that particular muscle group?

Transdermal prohormones are delivered systemically, so applying them to a particular area will not cause disproportionate strength gain in that area. The exception is products that are geared toward local delivery, such as Sytenhance.



Q: Should transdermal prohormones be cycled differently than oral prohormones?

Cycles with transdermal prohormones should be the same length as one would use with oral prohormones, and post-cycle recovery should remain the same. The primary differences are how often you will administer the prohormone (two times daily as opposed to three or four) and the dose used.



Q: What are the dosages for transdermally administered hormones?

First off, it should be noted that the listed dosage and duration on product labels is often conservative. Also, dosage will vary on stacking, level of experience, and many other factors. Here are some general guidelines


1-testosterone: 200-500 mg
19-norandrostenediol: 400-800 mg
4-androstenediol: 400-600 mg
3-alpha androstenediol: 50-150 mg
3-beta androstenediol: 200-500 mg
4-hydroxyandrostenedione (formestane): 50-200 mg
androstenetrione (6-OXO): 150-500 mg
7-OXO-DHEA (7-Keto): 100 mg


Note: Much of the dosage information comes from the prohormone FAQ, by pogue.



Q: What are the differences between the Dermabolics carrier and other carriers?


The Dermabolics carrier is identical to the carrier developed by Avant Labs except it does not contain carbomer, a thickening agent (due to the fact that it is a spray instead of a lotion). For a discussion of the science behind this carrier as well as comparison to some other products, see Battle of the Transdermal Prohormones by Par Deus.

2. Application tips


Q: When, where and how should transdermals be applied?

Transdermals should be applied as close to twelve hours apart as possible. An ideal time to apply is after showering or bathing. Scrubbing with a luffa, wash cloth, or sponge beforehand improves delivery, as does shaving the area of application. Ideal areas of application are those with thin skin, such as wrists, top of feet, upper arms, chest, back, or legs. Larger amounts will require larger application areas. If possible, latex gloves should be worn during application. These can be purchased at most pharmacies. It is also a good idea to shake the bottle before application to mix the ingredients. Spray or pump the lotion onto the hand and then rub into the application area. Afterwards, wash your hands with soap. Five minutes should be allowed for the transdermal to dry after contact with clothes or other objects.



Q: After applying the transdermal, should I wait before working out, showering, or swimming?

Yes. Water can wash off the transdermals making them less effective. You should wait at least half an hour before any of these activities, and ideally 1-2 hours. Also if you shower after application it is best not to scrub the area of application.



Q: Should I avoid contact with other people in the area of application?

Most definitely, especially females and children. This applies primarily if you are using a prohormone or steroid. Contact with the area may result in delivery of active hormone to the person contacted. If you think it will become a problem, it is best to keep the area covered (saran wrap over the area of application will work), or only use areas that will be covered with clothing as application spots. Also, certain application areas (such as the back of the legs) are less likely to be contacted.



Q: My transdermal product is resulting in rash/skin irritation. Is this normal? How do I avoid this?

Some people experience skin irritation or rashes from transdermals, especially those containing certain active ingredients. 1-testosterone is particularly caustic, and latex gloves are a must when applying this substance (even after washing hands thoroughly small amounts can remain that may get in the eyes or other sensitive areas, and it is quite painful). If latex gloves are not available, you can at least use a sandwich bag. The best way to avoid irritation regardless of the source is to rotate the area of application – one day apply to the feet, another to the upper arms, and so on. You can also apply lotion to areas of application not in use.

3. Homebrewing
Q: Can I add more prohormones to a transdermal prohormone product?

Yes, but it will become saturated at a certain point. Also, increasing the concentration may reduce the relative effectiveness. If you want a concentration or blend of ingredients that is not available pre-made it is usually better to make your own using a carrier product such as the transport matrix.



Q: How do I make my own transdermal prohormone?

Simply add the hormone powder to the carrier and then shake. If you accidentally put in too much hormone powder heating lightly and shaking vigorously may help. To heat a solution, boil a pot of water and let it cool to just below boiling. Place the prohormone bottle in the water for a few minutes, remove, then shake.



Q: I am using the Dermabolics carrier. Can adding DMSO increase the efficacy of my transdermal prohormone?

This carrier is quite effective as it is. In theory, adding 5-10% DMSO may increase absorption. However, one will have to put up with the side effects of DMSO (increased irritation, bad breath, etc).


4. Miscellaneous
Q: Can transdermal prohormones be dosed more often than two times daily?

If desired, a smaller dose can be used three times daily (every eight hours), but this does not have a clear benefit.



Q: Is it acceptable to use transdermal prohormones in conjunction with topical fat loss products?

Yes, just avoid applying them both in the same area.



Q: Can transdermal prohormones be used along with oral prohormones?

Yes, although if one is doing an intraday cycle (oral prohormones during the day, transdermal overnight) trying to compare oral and transdermal doses can often be difficult. Stacking one prohormone transdermally and another orally is not uncommon.



Q: What is the shelf life of transdermal prohormones?

This depends on the substance; in general the shelf life is 1-2 years. This can be increased by freezing and/or vacuum sealing. If you are planning on stocking up you are better off buying bulk prohormone powders and then mixing them in a carrier before use.

By David Tolson - Special thanks to fuzz and the members of the Avant Labs forums for helping with this FAQ.

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Other useful links -

PART ONE: intro to PHs, explains PH sides, older PHs like andro and 19-nor, 4-AD, 1-AD, 1,4-andro, delivery options, dosing, and FAQs.

PART TWO: explains the conversions of PHs (ie. 4-AD to test and 1-AD to 1-TEST).

PART THREE: just a good read.

read these and you will be well on your way to understanding the process of PHs....


Normal Values For Blood Testing

Testosterone: (normal range 300 - 1200ng/dl)
Free testosterone: (normal range 8.7 - 25pg/ml)
IGF-1: (normal range 109-284ng/ml)
Estradiol: (normal range 5 - 53pg/ml for adult male)
DHEA-s: (normal range 120 - 520ug/dl)
Thyroid panel
T4: (normal range 4.5 - 12ug/dl)
T3: (normal range 2.3 - 4.2pg/ml)
TSH: (0.350 - 5.500uIU/ml)
Total cholesterol: (normal healthy range 100 - 199mg/dl)
LDL fraction: (normal range 0 - 99mg/dl)
HDL fraction: (normal range 40 - 59mg/dl)
Triglycerides: (normal range 0 - 149mg/dl)
C-reactive protein: (>2mg/l increased risk of MI and stroke)
Homocysteine: (normal range 6.3 - 15umol/L)
Alkaline phosphatase: (Normal range (25 - 150IU/L)
GGT: (normal range 0 - 65IU/L)
SGOT: (normal range 0 - 40IU/L)
SGPT: (normal range 0-40IU/L)
PSA: (normal 0.0 - 4.0ng/ml)
Creatinine: (normal 0.5 - 1.5mg/dl)
BUN: (normal range 5 - 26mg/dl)
Creatinine/BUN ratio: (normal 8 - 27)

[tribal]

M4OHN
Technical Name:
17a-methyl-4 hydroxy nandrolone
Written by Pogue

Description:
M4OHN is an active hormone, it does not require a conversion to a target hormone such as 4AD Cyp. It is a Nandrolone derivative however the 4-OH group added inhibits a conversion to DHT (dihydrotestosterone) or DHN (dihydronandrolone) making this a mildly androgenic and highly anabolic compound. There is also no conversion to estrogen (Rubin et al. Endrocinol., 49, 1951, p. 429); or progesterone (McPhail, 3. Physiol. 83,1955, p. 145). Mg to Mg comparison M4OHN is 10x more anabolic then Anavar.

Benefits:
Increases in lean mass as well as moderate strength gains. Increased nitrogen retention, making the body a more anabolic environment. Central Nervous System (CNS) stimulation, not in a jittery ephedrine type feeling but you should be able to sleep less and still feel refreshed upon waking. Less time is needed for recovery between sets and workouts. There should be no decrease in sex drive, and should help with joint pain. Increases in the ability to lose fat while increasing vascularity.

Suggested Use:
8-16mgs per day (2-4 tablets) based on bodyweight or experience of individual. Always start with a lower dose and increase slowly every 5 days as needed. Do not use for longer then 6-8 weeks, followed by a full PCT.

Under 160lbs: 8mgs
160-175lbs: 10mgs
175-190lbs: 12mgs
190-205lbs: 14mgs
205lbs +: 16mgs

Stacking and Cycles:
Methyl-4OHN should work well in both bulking and cutting cycles depending on what type of diet/workout you are using as well as what other compounds it could is used with. The use of 600-800mgs of R-Ala per day is suggested when using any type of methylated compound.

Cutting cycles:
8-10mgs of M4OHN per day, 20-30mgs of M5AA preworkout only for 4-6 weeks.
8mgs M4OHN per day, 5-7mgs Methyl-Dien per day for 4 weeks.
400-600mgs per week of 1 Test Cyp and or 5AA Cyp, 8-16mgs M4OHN per day for 6-8 weeks.

Bulking cycles:
1200-1600mgs of either 4 AD Cyp, Pro-Sust or Sledge Test per week, 8-16mgs per day of M4OHN for 6-8 weeks.
60-90mgs of Methyl-14ADDiol per day, 8-10mgs of M4OHN per day for 4-6 weeks.
500mgs of 1 Test Cyp per week, 60mgs of Methyl-14ADDiol per day, 8mgs of M4OHN per day for 4-6 weeks.

Possible Side Effects:
this seems to be a very mild compound with few side effects. But all steroid hormones may cause acne, accelerated male pattern baldness, gynecomastia, testicle shrinkage, increased facial and body hair in men. As well as voice deepening and clitoral enlargement in females. This product should not be used by anyone under the age of 18 and always consult your physician before starting any new supplement.



'Methyl-Dien™’
Written by Loki

The chemically-structured 'little cousin' of Methyltrienolone-- one of the most potent steroids ever synthesized--'Methyldienolone,' which also goes by the names 'Methyl-Dien™' & it's true, structural designation 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyestra-4,9(10)dien-3-one, is one of the newest & most intriguing 17-alpha-alkylated (i.e. 'methylated') androgens to have recently emerged in the PH/AAS market as of late.

Little true data exists concerning the use of methyldienolone in healthy human subjects, and-- at the moment I am writing this article-- user feedback concerning the compound simply does not exist to any significant degree. To my knowledge, at present, I am one of only roughly a half-dozen individuals in the United States to have used methyldienolone in a cycle. Thus, for the purposes of this piece, I will be relying more on my own individual experiences/observations with the compound, rather than lab assays & its presumed anabolic: androgenic activity ratio.

Methyldienolone, for all extents & purposes, can best be thought of as a highly orally bioavailable, non-aromatizing 19-Nortestosterone derivative that boasts a very anabolic and moderately androgenic profile. Just to give you an idea, methyldienolone is only a single double-bond away from the 'ubersteroid' 17a-Methyl-17b-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-Trien-3-one, one of the most anabolic (as well as hepatotoxic) steroids known to man.

In my own limited experience with the compound, methyldienolone is a rather singular androgen in its utter absence of effects on mood, energy levels, and SNS activity. While it is moderately androgenic (and thus has the penchant to produce any/all of the typical androgenic sides associated with PH/AAS use [acne, hair loss, prostate hypertrophy, et. al.]), methyldienolone does not appear to have any significant effect on energy levels, appetite, aggression/complacency, or cognitive capacity. Furthermore, given its close structural similarities to methyltrienolone (as well as its tremendous potency), methyldienolone has to be considered the most hepatotoxic commercially-available 17aa-androgen at present. Still, it is my own personal opinion-- based on an extensive perusal of steroid studies & tests from the past several decades-- that this risk is generally overemphasized when discussing methylated compounds, and is not something that should be considered 'truly dangerous' for a healthy, fit male subject using it in moderation. Nonetheless, just because a phenomenon is not overly dangerous does not mean that some danger does not exist, and use of 17aa-androgens certainly could pose a risk if misused or abused. Thus, as with all 17aa-androgens, those with prior liver conditions &/or concerns in this regard should make sure they exercise the utmost caution if they choose to pursue methyldienolone for personal use.

In terms of its anabolic capabilities, methyldienolone is, without doubt, the most potent (on a mg/mg basis), widely-available 17aa-androgen that one can currently obtain 'legally' (Author's note: Although it is important to note that the actual 'legality' of this class of compounds [re: 17aa-androgens] in compliance with the terms of DSHEA should be considered 'questionable' at best). As a comparison, 1mg of methyldienolone seems to be equivalent, anabolically, to ~8-12mg of 17aa-1-Testosterone (also known as Methyl-1-Test). Impressive (and often rapid) LBM gains (even in the face of a caloric deficit), marginal strength increases, and noticeable aesthetic improvements in vascularity, muscle hardness & fullness, as well as a visible 'leaning out' effect are all facets to methyldienolone use that I have witnessed first-hand.

As a stand-alone androgen, methyldienolone should be used @ 1-3mg/day. Heavily experienced &/or much larger lifters might do better with 4-5mg/day (although it is still recommended that one starts low and builds up, for purposes of assessing tolerance & its effects), and I do not feel that there is any need whatsoever to exceed the 5mg/day dose-range. 750mcg-1000mcg (1mg) of methyldienolone can also be used in stacks with other androgens as well, although it is NOT recommended that one attempt to use methyldienolone in conjunction with aromatizing androgens such as 4-androstenediol (4AD) due to the potential incidence of progesterone-induced side-effects, which can negatively affect mood, skin appearance, insulin sensitivity, and vascularity, among other potentially-detrimental occurrences/conditions.


How to make Oral Solutions from Powders!
Written by Sledge

Directions for Oral solutions:

Method 1 - Olive Oil Oral Solution 10mg/ml

(For M1T and M4AD only)

1gm M1T
96ml extra virgin olive oil
1ml BA
2mlBB
Heat for 10 min and let cool and you have a 10mg/ml solution.


Method 2 - Everclear or Bacardi 151 Oral Solution 10mg/ml

(For M1T and M4AD only)

1gm Methyl-1 Test powder
99ml Everclear or 151
Allow to dissolve.


Method 3 - ( For M5AA, M1T, M4AD)

1 gm powder
25 ml Peg 400
73ml Propylene Glycol
Heat for 15-20 min and let it cool before use. Methyl-5AA may need to be heated slightly before use.


Method 4 - (For Methyl 1,4 ADDiol)

99ml PEG 400
1 Gram Methyl 1,4ADD
Heat for 10 Minutes in a water bath
Yields 100 10mg/ml servings
M4OHN 2mg/ml solution

1gm M4OHN powder
mix with 499ml peg 400
heat in a water bath on the stove (low heat) for 30-45 minutes.

M4OHN 5mg/ml "suspenison"
1gm M4OHN powder
mix with 185ml Olive oilm, 6ml BA (Benzyl Alchohol), 10ml BB (Benzyl Benzoate)
heat for 30-45 min in a water bath on the stove (low heat)

[tribal]

Spot Injection Techniques
Written by Sledge

I have noticed that there are a lot of posts about site injections that lack important information. After reading them and talking with a couple friends on this subject, I decided that an article might help to clear up a few things. Some common questions are: What gauge needle should on use on which muscle? How many mls should I start with? What areas can I shoot?, What do I do if I hit a vein? You might notice that some of the things that I say will be different then the advice you get from others. This won't be first time that I don't agree with the other experts and I am sure it isn't the last. I am not claiming that they are wrong and I am always right, but I do have a lot of experience when it comes to spot injections.

I would like to share with you the techniques that I have used.
Sterility should be your first concern because you don’t want to get an infection or an abscess. Most people feel hitting a nerve or a vein is the first thing to worry about, it isn’t. Although I will discuss what to do if you hit a vein or a nerve later, if you get an infection or abscess you need to see your doctor and get it drained, go on a course of antibiotics and depending on the size of the abscess get it drained and possibly cut off. You definitely don’t want an oozing lump of infection on top of your bicep. There are different procedures